A speck in space

[myturn]

Ryan wrote "The thing about space is that it must end, but if it ends what is beyond the end."

That as I said at the beginning, is the issue that I cannot get my head around, its got to be something or nothing :x

Just goes to prove one point, that you will always end up back where you started whatever direction you set off in. 8)

 

[Paul Chapman]

Ryan wrote "The thing about space is that it must end, but if it ends what is beyond the end."


That as I said at the beginning, is the issue that I cannot get my head around, its got to be something or nothing :x

I think you'll find, Pete, that the Oozlum Bird solved the conundrum but he was never able to tell us much about it because, as you know, he disappeared......... :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[gus3049]

Yeah, but I won't be aware of the fact (unless you believe in Gaia type consciousness) and that's what annoys!!

I don't even believe in being an atheist.

Have you read Asimov's Foundation series? If not they are highly recommended.

Is the pope a ....oops

Naturally one has, all seven or whatever it eventually became!! (Did try the 'continuation' books by other writers but they were never even close to being as good) In fact, one suspects that mostly hidden away upstairs is every book he ever wrote including all the textbooks. Also Arthur Clarke, Anne McCaffrey and virtually every other science fiction writer who has, does and may live!

i also read non fiction but prefer to escape from reality occasionally. Books fight for time with the lathe and the music. Another reason for objecting to having to depart this mortal coil - there ain't no time!

 

[myturn]

Another reason for objecting to having to depart this mortal coil - there ain't no time!

It's a scientific fact that the older you get the quicker time goes by, but to an observer you appear to be taking twice as long.

I hardly ever have time to read nowadays but the books written by Asimov & Friends after his death were nowhere near as good as his own writings.

 

[cambournepete]

So, if the universe is infinitely huge but also expanding...what is it expanding into?

I think of it like this: All the mass in the universe is contained within a finite (but jolly large) volume. It's this volume that is expanding into the vast nothingness...

 

[gus3049]

It's a scientific fact that the older you get the quicker time goes by, but to an observer you appear to be taking twice as long.

Hmmmm,

Sounds like more science fiction to me. By the time most folk think I've gone, I'm already back - its as if I hadn't moved at all.

 

[theartfulbodger]

Sorry! It's myturn to quote you.

Well, we THINK we understand, but so did we when the world was supposed to be flat. It could be we are as wrong now as they were then. Or maybe they were right. :?

ALL "science" is merely the best fit model to explain what can be observed. #-o

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

So, if the universe is infinitely huge but also expanding...what is it expanding into?

I think of it like this: All the mass in the universe is contained within a finite (but jolly large) volume. It's this volume that is expanding into the vast nothingness...

But then when you think about it what we (typically) define as nothing is not really nothing at all, just invisible. I have nothjing in my hand right now (except zillions of atoms, that I cannot see). So perhaps we are not really expanding into nothing, but into something we just haven't seen (yet).

 

[cambournepete]

So, if the universe is infinitely huge but also expanding...what is it expanding into?

I think of it like this: All the mass in the universe is contained within a finite (but jolly large) volume. It's this volume that is expanding into the vast nothingness...

But then when you think about it what we (typically) define as nothing is not really nothing at all, just invisible. I have nothjing in my hand right now (except zillions of atoms, that I cannot see). So perhaps we are not really expanding into nothing, but into something we just haven't seen (yet).

Maybe, but I really mean nothing, a complete void of anything we have or haven't seen yet...

Probably a load of cobblers, obviously

 

[myturn]

But then when you think about it what we (typically) define as nothing is not really nothing at all, just invisible. I have nothjing in my hand right now (except zillions of atoms, that I cannot see). So perhaps we are not really expanding into nothing, but into something we just haven't seen (yet).

Or perhaps something is expanding in your hand that you cannot see and any minute now it will form a worm hole that sucks you into it's nothingness and transport you to another universe. :mrgreen:

 

[newt]

This thread could become infinitely long, however it is an interesting one. No sleep for me tonight, its all Rogers fault

 

[gus3049]

None of you exist.

Only I am here and you lot are just pigments of my colourful imagination.

When I go you will cease to exist for me too.

Wierd init?

 

[cambournepete]

This thread could become infinitely long, however it is an interesting one. No sleep for me tonight, its all Rogers fault

No it can't - there's only a finite amount of storage available on the planet and only a finite number of contributors...

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

This thread could become infinitely long, however it is an interesting one. No sleep for me tonight, its all Rogers fault

No it can't - there's only a finite amount of storage available on the planet and only a finite number of contributors...

more importantly, my attention span will only last a finite length of time.

 

[RogerS]

Well, if infinity is infinity then what is infinity + 1 ?

 

[Karl]

Well, if infinity is infinity then what is infinity + 1 ?

-ve infinity

 

[Kalimna]

RogerS - Inifinity + 1 = Infinity. Unfortunately

And to the 'The thing about space is that it must end, but if it ends what is beyond the end?' question - that statement is unfortunately not true. Just because we tend to think in terms of straight lines and starts and stops, does not mean that the universe (even our own little patch of it) does also. Going back to using Earth as an example - just insert the word 'Earth' in place of the word 'space' in the quoted line, and you will see that the question doesnt make sense. The rest of the universe is a 3-dimensional (not including time or folded dimensions of the quantum/superstring world) version of the Earths 2-dimensional surface (I know it exists as a sphere(ish), but the surface only exists in 2 dimensions - up/down and left/right).

Using another analogy beloved of the sciencey-type books written by Prof Cox et. al., imagine that the surface of a balloon is the universe (ok, a bit of a stretch with this one, but go with it), not the air inside or outside the balloon, just the surface. This surface has only two dimensions - it is a plane curved in on itself. Now, if this surface was made to expand, as it's possible to do with balloons, then points on the surface would get further apart, and the surface would have expanded. However, similar to the discussion of 'what the universe is expanding into' or 'what is outside the universe', the balloon is not expanding into anything at all, just getting bigger itself.

I think that just about clears things up

Adam

 

[cambournepete]

Well, if infinity is infinity then what is infinity + 1 ?

infinity.
But then what is infinity x infinity?
Again infinity, but a different order of infinity!

Imagine a piece of graph paper, where the x axis is infinitely long but the y axis is just one high - that's infinity.
Now make the y axis infinitely long as well - that's infinity x infinity.
Now remember that there are an infinite number of infinitesimally small point in each square - that's infinity x infinity x infinity!

Have a look here, if you're still awake

 

[studders]

 

[woodbloke]

Then its suggested its all because I cannot think in the 4th dimension :x

Pete, knowing you as I do, I find this statement disappointing :lol: :lol: :lol:
Never mind Prof Brian...you need Douglas Adams for definitive reading on the Universe!

'There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened' - Rob