A speck in space

[RogerS]

What prompted this was reading a short article in the paper today about the relative size of earth compared to other planets and the sun. For example, you can fit 1 million earths inside the sun. But it didn't stop there but went on to show just how small the sun is on the cosmic scale. Sadly the article doesn't appear online but I did come across this....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEKXCfB9fds

Hope you enjoy it.

 

[newt]

Roger, Sorry to change the subject a little but I was giving some thought to infinity the other day ( very sad I know) and it does bug me. If you travel in a straight line into space at some point there will either be something or nothing, where does the nothing or something end, got to be again something or nothing :roll: Then to avoid any answer they say you cannot travel in a straight line it is curved, ok what is on the outside of the curve, something or nothing. Then its suggested its all because I cannot think in the 4th dimension :x

 

[Steve Maskery]

Well isn't that all to do with the idea of space expanding? There is simply nothing until there is something, after which (which in itself implies the creation of time) it's no longer nothing but something.
The concept of nothing stops making sense.
I feel a headache coming on.
S

 

[gus3049]

The problem is, of course, that our 'common sense' has been formed by the fact that we are here and by our experience of living. Its probably nothing of the kind.

Not having existed before I was born, why the hell I am here and how can it be that I won't exist again are all beyond understanding and I have trouble getting my poor tired old brain to encompass the idea of being a random chance happening. but...... I risk drifting into the region of religious beliefs so I'll stop right there.

 

[RogerS]

Roger, Sorry to change the subject a little but I was giving some thought to infinity the other day ( very sad I know) and it does bug me. If you travel in a straight line into space at some point there will either be something or nothing, where does the nothing or something end, got to be again something or nothing :roll: Then to avoid any answer they say you cannot travel in a straight line it is curved, ok what is on the outside of the curve, something or nothing. Then its suggested its all because I cannot think in the 4th dimension :x

Brian Cox's excellent book 'Why does e=mc2 and why does it matter" is well worth reading...and virtually no maths!

 

[miles_hot]

Roger - think you'll like this: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/525347

 

[Kalimna]

Newt - it's not 'avoiding an answer', it really is that space is curved. Think of something closer to home. Take a walk, in a 'straight line' on the surface of the earth. this walk isnt, in fact, a straight line because the earth is curved, even though it doesnt seem like it from our perspective.
Similiarly, if you dont stop, and keep going in this straigt line, you will eventually return to the spot you started from. Whichever direction you start off from, you will at some point end up, if you dont change your 'direction', at your initial poiint.
Although a little hard to fathom, there is a notion that this is exactly what would happen if you could set off in a straight line in space and keep going - if you had enough time to do it of course!
A similar, slightly cliched, question is to ask 'what is north of the north pole? The very question doesnt make sense, because there is nothing to *be* north of the north pole. What's outside the universe? Nothing, for the same reason, essentially. Parallel universes dont count herew either, as they are thought to exist in separate dimensions,,,,,,,Erm, i think.

Anyhoo, time to go to work,

Adam

 

[Karl]

Roger, Sorry to change the subject a little but I was giving some thought to infinity the other day ( very sad I know) and it does bug me. If you travel in a straight line into space at some point there will either be something or nothing, where does the nothing or something end, got to be again something or nothing :roll: Then to avoid any answer they say you cannot travel in a straight line it is curved, ok what is on the outside of the curve, something or nothing. Then its suggested its all because I cannot think in the 4th dimension :x

Brian Cox's excellent book 'Why does e=mc2 and why does it matter" is well worth reading...and virtually no maths!

Funny - I bought that off e-bay at the weekend. Should be here in a couple of days.

Cheers

Karl

 

[RogerS]

Roger, Sorry to change the subject a little but I was giving some thought to infinity the other day ( very sad I know) and it does bug me. If you travel in a straight line into space at some point there will either be something or nothing, where does the nothing or something end, got to be again something or nothing :roll: Then to avoid any answer they say you cannot travel in a straight line it is curved, ok what is on the outside of the curve, something or nothing. Then its suggested its all because I cannot think in the 4th dimension :x

Brian Cox's excellent book 'Why does e=mc2 and why does it matter" is well worth reading...and virtually no maths!

Funny - I bought that off e-bay at the weekend. Should be here in a couple of days.

Cheers

Karl

That's great. I'll be able to give you a call and have it all explained to me!

 

[newt]

Newt - it's not 'avoiding an answer', it really is that space is curved. Think of something closer to home. Take a walk, in a 'straight line' on the surface of the earth. this walk isnt, in fact, a straight line because the earth is curved, even though it doesnt seem like it from our perspective.
Similiarly, if you dont stop, and keep going in this straigt line, you will eventually return to the spot you started from. Whichever direction you start off from, you will at some point end up, if you dont change your 'direction', at your initial poiint.
Although a little hard to fathom, there is a notion that this is exactly what would happen if you could set off in a straight line in space and keep going - if you had enough time to do it of course!
A similar, slightly cliched, question is to ask 'what is north of the north pole? The very question doesnt make sense, because there is nothing to *be* north of the north pole. What's outside the universe? Nothing, for the same reason, essentially. Parallel universes dont count herew either, as they are thought to exist in separate dimensions,,,,,,,Erm, i think.

Anyhoo, time to go to work,

Adam

I can accept that it could be curved and there is nothing on the outside of the curve, but does the nothing extend for ever, thats the bit I cannot get my head around. My definition of the nothing is emptiness with no matter. Roger I wish you had not metioned space I now lay awake thing about this infinity issue. :?

 

[bugbear]

I can accept that it could be curved and there is nothing on the outside of the curve, but does the nothing extend for ever, thats the bit I cannot get my head around. My definition of the nothing is emptiness with no matter.

The answer (more like explanation) is complex and probably involves diagrams.

And it ain't getting posted here.

I suggest watching Wonders of the Universe, followed by Everything and Nothing.

The assembled power of the BBC and two pretty good science popularisers is better than anything I can do.

I think it's pretty phenomonal that a bunch of carbon based life forms on a planet *CAN* start to understand ... everything.

BugBear

 

[gus3049]

I think it's pretty phenomonal that a bunch of carbon based life forms on a planet *CAN* start to understand ... everything

Well it may happen at some time. I'm just annoyed I won't be around to find out. There are lots of things I don't remember signing up for and snuffing it within the next 20 years was definitely one of them.

 

[myturn]

I think it's pretty phenomonal that a bunch of carbon based life forms on a planet *CAN* start to understand ... everything

Well it may happen at some time. I'm just annoyed I won't be around to find out. There are lots of things I don't remember signing up for and snuffing it within the next 20 years was definitely one of them.

Well, we THINK we understand, but so did we when the world was supposed to be flat. It could be we are as wrong now as they were then. Or maybe they were right. :?

Don't worry Gordon, you will be recycled and may come back as part of a nicely turned bowl one day!

 

[theartfulbodger]

So, if the universe is infinitely huge but also expanding...what is it expanding into?

 

[myturn]

It's expanding into the MULTIVERSE :shock:

Beam me up Scotty !

 

[Pvt_Ryan]

A similar, slightly cliched, question is to ask 'what is north of the north pole? The very question doesnt make sense, because there is nothing to *be* north of the north pole.

But that makes sense (due to the north pole being a fixed point. once you pass the north pole you are by definition heading south.

It's like the riddle "How far can you walk into a forest?", the answer of course is "half way", as once you reach that point you are walking out of the forest.

The thing about space is that it must end, but if it ends what is beyond the end.
Once thing I do find interesting is the concept of Time.. I think I read somewhere about time being affected by the Doppler effect, the close to the centre of the universe the quicker time and further away the slower. What I find interesting is how subjective we have made it, if we look at Jupiter, it takes ~11 (Earth) years to orbit the sun and about 6 (Earth) days to rotate. Imagine if instead of evolving on earth we had evolved on Jupiter what would our concept of time be then? We would die aged 7.

/random ramble.

 

[gus3049]

Don't worry Gordon, you will be recycled and may come back as part of a nicely turned bowl one day

Yeah, but I won't be aware of the fact (unless you believe in Gaia type consciousness) and that's what annoys!!

 

[bugbear]

Well, we THINK we understand, but so did we when the world was supposed to be flat.

Very, very few people ever thought that.

BugBear

 

[myturn]

Yeah, but I won't be aware of the fact (unless you believe in Gaia type consciousness) and that's what annoys!!

I don't even believe in being an atheist.

Have you read Asimov's Foundation series? If not they are highly recommended.

 

[newt]

Ryan wrote "The thing about space is that it must end, but if it ends what is beyond the end."


That as I said at the beginning, is the issue that I cannot get my head around, its got to be something or nothing :x