A New Take on the Bowsaw....

[jimi43]

The problem...aside from the huge amount of stock that you have to use just to get matching transitions...is that shaving it requires quite a sharp tool...and regular honing. For planing the only tool that would not tear out the softer sapwood whilst cope with the heartwood was my Spiers. I honed the iron to within an inch of its life and it worked great! So did the chariot...again..super sharp.

The only way that I could get a silk finish was using a cabinet scraper with a very new burr. But it did take cellulose sanding sealer really well and then the Tru-Oil has left a finish which is a true pleasure to hold..this was what I wanted to achieve.

The term you are looking for is Bowyer....and I think they laminate bows now...I think we have a few bowyer on the forum if I remember correctly...

The great thing about this saw design is the stretchers can be done again without worrying about starting all over once more. I will try native woods....if I could get enough bog oak and if I were not in danger of staining the wood with tears as I cut it up..I would use it. You need a mortgage for that stuff in long bits though! :mrgreen:

The Indian rosewood was very old stock...I think may even qualify as "colony" wood!...but I could redo the handles with bog oak...I have some more...turning it is a game and a half though!

Cheers mate!

Jim

 

[condeesteso]

very good Jimi! - it looks really nice, and as said above I think the yew longbow connection would get the US market v excited. Re locking, I have a drift problem on my Gramercy, when used at odd angles. I dare not put more tension on as I use the fine blades that came with it. But in theory the tension plus a bearing surface between the handle and frame should stop that, taper fit sounds very good though. Just needs trying. One small point on the Gramercy the tensioning lever (it'll have a name!) is a lot finer - up to you but you could reduce that somewhat.

I'm holding out for the big baby though - the 600 - 700, like the one Frank uses, but made nicely like you will do (His is actually made in Germany, sold in the States, and it's not quite pretty enough!)

Two Fingers - what a cracking idea!!! well done

 

[Tusses]

What stops the handles from pulling off ?

Nice work BTW

 

[Scouse]

'Tis a thing of beauty Jim, well done.

You are right about the yew, though; I have made English longbows in the past, and it can be a sod to work, but considering what it can then do... a natural spring with up to 700N draw weight (!) and a range of 300+ yards from a thin piece of wood; well... nature is an astonishing thing.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Jimmi

I made a coping saw blade bow saw.

You can put loads of tension on the blade and cut nice curves in wood easily.

I haven't snapped any blades so wind yours and give it a go.

My stretcher is higher up than yours giving a mechanical advantage to the tensioning.
It's made from maple and brass ,the handles are made from two pieces and there is a pin through the brass rod to stop it pullong out.

Pete

 

[bugbear]

..and I think they laminate bows now...

Laminated bows are a few thousand years old, and solid self bows are still made.

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

Hi, Jimmi

I made a coping saw blade bow saw.

You can put loads of tension on the blade and cut nice curves in wood easily.

Doesn't the (fairly extreme) shaping in the uprights create areas of short grain?

BugBear

 

[Racers]

Hi, BB

Not had any problems so far, it must be 5-6 years old it gets left with moderate tension on.
The uprights came out of an 1 1/2 wide board so not too extreme.

Must take a better photo.


Pete

 

[bugbear]

Hi, BB

Not had any problems so far, it must be 5-6 years old it gets left with moderate tension on.
The uprights came out of an 1 1/2 wide board so not too extreme.

Well, they're evidently "strong enough", but would presumably be even stronger if the grain followed the arm shape (or vise versa)

BugBear

 

[jimi43]

Hi Douglas...thanks mate...and thanks for the ideas, extra stock and twine...most helpful during the build stage. The larger version is next....I think I need more blade research first though...I am still working on the smaller one in that area at the moment....but at least it is standard sizing... :wink: (if there is such a thing!)

What stops the handles from pulling off ?

Kryptonite mate... :mrgreen:

Nah...seriously...the pins are friction fit...I had to put them back in the lathe just to twist them back out again. The inside of the shaft is deep in the handle...over half is embedded...rough file cut and then Original Araldite is used to lock them in. I think it would take a small elephant to pull them out but if they do move...I will drill and plug a pin through...I'm not worried in that direction though.

Thanks Scouse....it is indeed something I have wanted to make just for the fun of it but having tried to source the 12" length of quality wood for the cheeks...I think that a 7 foot longbow length is going to be like rocking horse poo....perhaps why the traditional method has also demised over the years!

Nice coping saw Pete! With some of the shorted reject yew...I may just make one that size. The are a greatly under-utilised design....capable of going where no other saw has gone before. Those are tight curves mate...have you tried a spiral blade?

I was worried about being too extreme on the horns on mine BB...but the yew that I have is fairly wild...strangely the grain looks straight from the side but it tends to wander off in all directions...perhaps the reason why there is so much sheer strength...

What looks like splits around the two cheeks on mine, is actually wild figuring...even with a cabinet scraper...there are parts along the stock where you have to change direction...just to prevent it tearing. It seems a wood that you can tame though...but care is definitely the watch word!

Some of the rudimentary research that I did into longbow making....I did find the old designs that were laminates too...I wasn't implying that it was a new thing...just that it seems to be the method used by modern-day bowyers...but I am sure there are professionals here who can chip in...it is a fascinating subject for sure!

Jim

 

[bugbear]

Some of the rudimentary research that I did into longbow making....I did find the old designs that were laminates too...I wasn't implying that it was a new thing...just that it seems to be the method used by modern-day bowyers...

I am happy to say that modern bowyers are a (very) varied bunch.

BugBear

 

[Richard T]

I felled an Ash, here, a couple of months ago that had made its way out from under the crown of a big Sycamore. Consequentiality it was a very interesting shape indeed - multiple curves. Its use as various odd handles crossed my mind - long handles with no short grain - axes etc. before I consigned it to the firewood stack.
Wish now I had split some staves to use for a one - of - these.

(homer)

 

[Racers]

Hi, Jimmi

Thanks, I haven't tried spiral blades, might have to get some.

You won't go back to a normal coping saw if you make one.

Pete

 

[jimi43]

Hi Richard

The power company cut an ash in my garden that was encroaching on the power line and I asked them to cut the bows into the longest lengths they could manage and leave them on the floor.

When I got back..the man had decided to be "helpful" and said..."they're 'round the back mate....I cut them into smaller bits for your fire already for you...." and held out his hand! I could have cried!!!!

I will be trying a spiral cut blade...that seems like a good option for the smaller saw....mmmm

But you are quite right Pete....I won't be using a metal coping saw again!

Jim

 

[condeesteso]

Pete - nice saw by the way. But re mechanical advantage... the stretcher higher reduces the advantage in tensioning the blade surely. It's the old leverage sum, square of distance... I think. So lowering the stretcher nearer the blade raises the tension advantage to the power of 2, i.e. a lot! - but it also reduces depth of cut. My guess is stretcher centred is the compromise that has evolved. Can get greater blade tension by lengthening the horns (whatever they are called) but that increases mass away from the blade, and light bowsaws are nicer. I've tried Jim's and it is well on the way to excellent - just get rid of the leather mate!! - where's that whipping twine I gave you???

p.s. re naming of parts - the item you use to tension a bowsaw is correctly referred to as the twizzle-stick.

 

[Racers]

Hi, condeesteso

Yes I realise that now, its old age catching up with me


Pete

 

[GazPal]

A very nice piece of work Jim

 

[bugbear]

Pete - nice saw by the way. But re mechanical advantage... the stretcher higher reduces the advantage in tensioning the blade surely. It's the old leverage sum, square of distance... I think.

No, leverage is linear. For an easy way to realise this, think about the linear spacings of the markings on a beam scale.

BugBear

 

[condeesteso]

absolutely right... prob having a foggy day.

 

[Tony Spear]

Just for interest's sake did you know that THE expert on English longbows is (allegedly) Robert Hardy of "All Creatures Great and Small" fame?

Also that the tribes of Central Asia make extremely powerful bows that are short enough to be used when on horseback? :shock: