hi everyone im looking to buy a bandsaw I have 600 to spend can anyone give me some pointers please ive got a planer/thicknesses from lumberjack and there 14inch bandsaw looks value for money its only for small/medium workshop thanks
£600 bandsaw
- Thread starter Squid
- Start date
Help Support UKworkshop.co.uk:
Small and cheap machines are made down to a price. Even medium dear machines are made down to a selling point. If you are mechanically minded and dont mind "fettling" then a cheap machine might well work for you. If you have no mechanical skills, then 600 is not enough as far as new machines go.
If you do go for a used bigger bandsaw , Be aware some models require a 16 amp supply
A word of caution.In June I decided I needed a larger cut on my bandsaw as the old Axminster machine only had a 5" cut depth. I looked around and was contemplating a Record BS350 but then got lured by the Charnwood B350 from Yandles - same spec almost, but up to 1" blade and nearly £200 less. OK so I bought it. After 30 days thrust bearing screaming so I investigated and found top bearing seized and lower bearing sticking. Contacted Yandles who contacted Charnwood. Whilst waiting for a response, I investigated further and looked at the instructions (meagre) specified in the manual. 0.5mm clearance they say -OK. However when the blade guide is lowered there is a 2.5 mm fore and aft play on the slide so it is not possible to adjust for 0.5 mm gap specified. Result is when locked down you can have either a large gap between blade and bearing or the blade is running on the bearing, not a good design and unacceptable in my opinion. Hence my bearing being kaput. Have been back and forth between Yandles and Charnwood ever since without a resolution to the problem. Charnwood have sent me 2 new bearings and say that all the machines are like that so it's not an issue! I beg to differ, especially if I have to change the bearings on a monthly basis. I am still waiting to hear back from them both.
Am I being picky, or what.
TheTiddles
Established Member
My 352 “needed” a 16A supply, however the cable going from the contactor to the motor (as installed by Startrite) was not rated at 16A, so I’ve been running it off a 13A just fine, even down a 20m extension cable off a 13A fused spur. I’m not saying that’s the ideal solution, but might be worth remembering if a good 352 comes up for sale local to you
Aidan
Aidan
Trevanion
Greatest Of All Time
I don't think I've ever seen a 352 with a 16A plug, they only had a 1hp motor which is well within the 13A threshold.
TheTiddles
Established Member
That does make perfect sense, the users manual talks about using thicker cables for above 15A but doesn’t mention specifically needing a 16A plug
This is a minefield area. there are too many variables to give a one word answer without knowing the EXACT motor details, the length of run of the cable, the type of breaker in the consumer unit, and on and on and on.
As a general rule, manufacturers use the numbers that look best in the adverts. quite often the motors are not as powerful as declared.
Even manufacturers tolerances can make the same model behave differently, so what works for one person may well not work for someone else.
So if you are unsure of anything. you should use the manufacturers specification for electric supply. That way you know you wont have nuisance tripping or cable fires.
As a general rule, manufacturers use the numbers that look best in the adverts. quite often the motors are not as powerful as declared.
Even manufacturers tolerances can make the same model behave differently, so what works for one person may well not work for someone else.
So if you are unsure of anything. you should use the manufacturers specification for electric supply. That way you know you wont have nuisance tripping or cable fires.
TheTiddles
Established Member
Yes, all very true.
I was planning on running a 16a supply but when I tried it at 13A it was fine, plus the voltage drop down an extension cable run through a standard 13A fuse on a circuit breaker ring. That and the cable fitted between the contactor and the motor being smaller than 16A rated tells me that if it took, 16A the bandsaw itself would be the weak link, not the cable to it
Aidan
I was planning on running a 16a supply but when I tried it at 13A it was fine, plus the voltage drop down an extension cable run through a standard 13A fuse on a circuit breaker ring. That and the cable fitted between the contactor and the motor being smaller than 16A rated tells me that if it took, 16A the bandsaw itself would be the weak link, not the cable to it
Aidan
I'm slightly concerned over your description.
You have a (how long?) extension lead from a 13 amp socket to the machine. Is the machine on a 13 amp socket as well?
What is the cable size you are using? I think youre playing with fire.
You have a (how long?) extension lead from a 13 amp socket to the machine. Is the machine on a 13 amp socket as well?
What is the cable size you are using? I think youre playing with fire.
TheTiddles
Established Member
I did... I have a 13A fused spur I run everything except my dust extractor off, in reality that’s a router, or a vacuum with a power take off etc... for ages the cable on the bandsaw wasn’t long enough to reach a socket on the wall so I had to use a long extension cable to give me an extra metre or so to get to the wall. Never once popped the 13A fused spur fuse, of the one in the extension cable, or the one in the plug for the bandsaw, so despite that far larger than desirable voltage drop, current was still lower than enough to pop a fuse.
It’d be dangerous if I’d put a bit of nail instead of the fuse, but fuses are there to protect cables, if I was pulling too much current I’d just end up with a blown fuse.
I’ve now replaced the OEM cable on the bandsaw with a larger flex that’s long enough to reach the wall socket.
Some people do some frighteningly stupid things with electrics, but if you don’t do those, all you’re going to do if you have made a mistake is pop a fuse or trip the circuit breaker.
Aidan
It’d be dangerous if I’d put a bit of nail instead of the fuse, but fuses are there to protect cables, if I was pulling too much current I’d just end up with a blown fuse.
I’ve now replaced the OEM cable on the bandsaw with a larger flex that’s long enough to reach the wall socket.
Some people do some frighteningly stupid things with electrics, but if you don’t do those, all you’re going to do if you have made a mistake is pop a fuse or trip the circuit breaker.
Aidan
We have different ideas of "long" 
I have seen many power tools run from 30 metre extension cables. If the cable isnt fully unwound it can catch fire before the fuse blows. A metre or even two is neither here nor there.
I have seen many power tools run from 30 metre extension cables. If the cable isnt fully unwound it can catch fire before the fuse blows. A metre or even two is neither here nor there.
TheTiddles
Established Member
We have different ideas of "long"
The cable is still 20m, I was just using it for a 1m gap. The cable is on an open spool for exactly that reason, though I’ve never found an extension cable to be even warm, has anyone seen one catch fire?
Aidan
Trevanion
Greatest Of All Time
I've had extension leads get hot from running a small heater a couple of times (and if you pulled the plugs out of the wall or the extension lead the pins on the plugs were hot enough to burn you) but never anything noticeable on the small power tools.
When I was in college an extension lead caught light in the furniture making department because they hadn't unwound the reel and I can't remember for the life of me what they were running off it, I just remember the whole college being evacuated outside.
Jackbequick
Established Member
Sunnybob is raising salient points I;'l bring some together. Presuming your 1Hp motor is single phase. Nominal current drain of the 746 watts is say 3.5 amperes. 13 amps is (in my country) something not seen. 16A is typically a lighting circuit and 20A the basic power circuit. Without going into maximum demand and local regulations It is not a great idea to use one circuit only in your workshop. You made comment about 'nails' as fuses. It's often found and often results in fires. You see the rating of insulation is of course voltage related but also heat related. The heat relates to the impedance losses in the cable during use. Sunnybob wrote of coiled cable (extension leads)...bad practice as the coiling makes a choke and a choke offers more impedance than straightly laid cable. Fuses allow more 'overload' than breakers...I prefer RCD/combo breakers but if breaker drop out often, they can lose calibration, even fail. Heavy, expensive Westinghouse breakers were used in factories even after modern small units at a fraction the price. Getting back to your situation.
I don't know the size of your sub-mains, the house demand and whether the workshop is separately supplies from a sub-board. All that is relevant as electrical installations done by competent people work on the anticipated use. Not uncommonly designed also for price or tweaked by the contractor they run close to the bone. Just as an example, in 40 years of contracting no client ever blew a fuse on my work.
One example from some 35 years back when rcd combos were much more expensive than today (say $19,00 against $4.50) , as I always went through the architects plans and the buyer's proposed use...One client ona luxury place wanted a 2000W heater in each of 5 rooms. Four rooms were on one circuit. I recommended a special heater outlet to each room. The client paled...but the cost??...I said I can re-do the architect's layout with about 30M extra cable and provide you with 5 RcD's for $120.00 and say an hour's labour ...allup $190.00 but if you don't want to pay that I'll do it for the cost of the gear because I know you will be unhappy if I don't do the job as I am recommending. We ten had a talk about his hi fi location etc...the architects plan was just not going to suit the use. Other contractors just quoted on the plans. I got the job and the full price. The story is told to say...find out what you have and work with it. If sub-mains are inadequate have them replaced with larger within the code. As sunnybob indicated voltage drop is a really significant aspect of supply and is regulate. 220 volt motors are rated to 220V+/- 5% ...not 180V.
I'd organise at least two 20A separate circuits into your workshop , with outlets and tool use closely related to each other in location. You may even find a use for pendant outlets however remember this also..the mot important part of any electrical installation is the earthing.
Get rid of extension leads and those 'extension boards'...another fire hazard. Construction sites (here) restrict the use of extension leads, size and length of extension leads. Double-adaptors and 'outlet boards' will likely see you off the site.
The comment on 15A extension leads when 'distance' is because their csa (cross section area) of wire is greater than 8 amp or 10 amp extension leads. They should also have 15 amp plugs and sockets and thus not fit 10 amp outlets. Supplying 20A laid up cable to 10A outlets is normal but when you have tools requiring more than 10 Amperes, wise is to run a separate circuit for them with the correct outlets and plug tops or as permanent connections.
So...your 1Hp motor, presuming a wound rotor is well under-rated on your circuit. I have no idea of the curent drain of the other stuff. Your motor will draw its (say) 3.5A only when freely running at 1Hp load. On start up the motor windings are a 'dead short' more or less but the motor spinning provides offset to the incoming current by acting as an alternator. When motor start (centrifugal) is faulty (or motor jammed or etc etc etc...) the motor will growl and drop out the fuse/breaker...if properly rated.
In use when the rotation is slowed the electricity generated by the motor and fed back to the supply is reduced....current increases. slowing is commonplace when power tools are forced owing to blunt blades, improper tooth clearance and /or anxiety to get the job done sees the tool being forced into the work.
If you are misusing a 1 Hp motor without (properly functioning) thermal overloads in the windings on a 13A rated circuit your motor could burn out in one event or over several. Your machine may have a cycle of use and may have a running temperature. Check them from time to time.
I don't know the size of your sub-mains, the house demand and whether the workshop is separately supplies from a sub-board. All that is relevant as electrical installations done by competent people work on the anticipated use. Not uncommonly designed also for price or tweaked by the contractor they run close to the bone. Just as an example, in 40 years of contracting no client ever blew a fuse on my work.
One example from some 35 years back when rcd combos were much more expensive than today (say $19,00 against $4.50) , as I always went through the architects plans and the buyer's proposed use...One client ona luxury place wanted a 2000W heater in each of 5 rooms. Four rooms were on one circuit. I recommended a special heater outlet to each room. The client paled...but the cost??...I said I can re-do the architect's layout with about 30M extra cable and provide you with 5 RcD's for $120.00 and say an hour's labour ...allup $190.00 but if you don't want to pay that I'll do it for the cost of the gear because I know you will be unhappy if I don't do the job as I am recommending. We ten had a talk about his hi fi location etc...the architects plan was just not going to suit the use. Other contractors just quoted on the plans. I got the job and the full price. The story is told to say...find out what you have and work with it. If sub-mains are inadequate have them replaced with larger within the code. As sunnybob indicated voltage drop is a really significant aspect of supply and is regulate. 220 volt motors are rated to 220V+/- 5% ...not 180V.
I'd organise at least two 20A separate circuits into your workshop , with outlets and tool use closely related to each other in location. You may even find a use for pendant outlets however remember this also..the mot important part of any electrical installation is the earthing.
Get rid of extension leads and those 'extension boards'...another fire hazard. Construction sites (here) restrict the use of extension leads, size and length of extension leads. Double-adaptors and 'outlet boards' will likely see you off the site.
The comment on 15A extension leads when 'distance' is because their csa (cross section area) of wire is greater than 8 amp or 10 amp extension leads. They should also have 15 amp plugs and sockets and thus not fit 10 amp outlets. Supplying 20A laid up cable to 10A outlets is normal but when you have tools requiring more than 10 Amperes, wise is to run a separate circuit for them with the correct outlets and plug tops or as permanent connections.
So...your 1Hp motor, presuming a wound rotor is well under-rated on your circuit. I have no idea of the curent drain of the other stuff. Your motor will draw its (say) 3.5A only when freely running at 1Hp load. On start up the motor windings are a 'dead short' more or less but the motor spinning provides offset to the incoming current by acting as an alternator. When motor start (centrifugal) is faulty (or motor jammed or etc etc etc...) the motor will growl and drop out the fuse/breaker...if properly rated.
In use when the rotation is slowed the electricity generated by the motor and fed back to the supply is reduced....current increases. slowing is commonplace when power tools are forced owing to blunt blades, improper tooth clearance and /or anxiety to get the job done sees the tool being forced into the work.
If you are misusing a 1 Hp motor without (properly functioning) thermal overloads in the windings on a 13A rated circuit your motor could burn out in one event or over several. Your machine may have a cycle of use and may have a running temperature. Check them from time to time.
SteveW1000
Established Member
I did scrap one of the cheap plastic wind up drum extension leads and when I opened it up found the cable had completely welded it's self together so yes it can happen. Light loads generally not a problem but if you are pushing the current near to 13amps yes can happen.
TheTiddles
Established Member
Jack, your view is valid but you do realise we run on 230V here, a 20A circuits is a lot of power!
The way you can think of it is like a kettle, would you wire 20A round your kitchen as that’s on of the highest power devices in most homes (that and the oven which had its own supply). So 20A for power tools and small machines is really unnecessary, some need a higher power supply so you wire in a new supply for that, most of us hobby workers don’t have that. Though that’s what I was planing on doing till I inspected the machine and found it couldn’t take 16A itself.
I’ve had a hot plug pin once and that was due to the contact on the socket being slightly bent and only contacting on a point not a flat
Aidan
The way you can think of it is like a kettle, would you wire 20A round your kitchen as that’s on of the highest power devices in most homes (that and the oven which had its own supply). So 20A for power tools and small machines is really unnecessary, some need a higher power supply so you wire in a new supply for that, most of us hobby workers don’t have that. Though that’s what I was planing on doing till I inspected the machine and found it couldn’t take 16A itself.
I’ve had a hot plug pin once and that was due to the contact on the socket being slightly bent and only contacting on a point not a flat
Aidan
