Ultex Diamond Stones

[custard]

There's a retired engineer lives nearby, he helps me with metally stuff and I help him with woody bits and pieces.

He'd been looking out for some affordable diamond stones, so when I read on this forum about the Ultex offers I passed the information along and he bought the 300, 600, and 1200 stones on a deal.

He brought them around recently to see how they compared with my eight or ten year old DMT stones. Here's the sharpening station with the Ultex 300 and 1200, alongside the 300 and 1200 DMT equivalents.

It's not exactly replicating how I sharpen, because I normally use an even finer DMT diamond stone for the secondary bevel, I can't remember what grit it is but it's an XX Fine DMT stone. Sometimes I'll then take a couple of swipes on the pink 3M abrasive paper on a flat surface (again I can't remember the grit) and, if it's a particularly delicate job, I might even have an additional swipe on the yellowy/green 3M paper (also unknown grit but it's finer still), often times however I'll just stop after the XX Fine diamond stone and get back to work.

No matter, we decided to use the 300 stone for the primary bevel (on both Ultex and DMT), the 1200 stone for the secondary bevel (on both Ultex and DMT), and then bring the secondary bevel and the back of the tool to a polish on the pink paper. We broke all the Ultex stones in by first sharpening half a dozen plane irons.

I was working on some half lapped dovetails for cabinet sides at the time, so we decided I'd do the tails and pins, top and bottom, on one side with an A2 steel chisel freshly sharpened on the DMT stones, then repeat the exercise for the other side of the cabinet using the Ultex stones. I'd normally use a router to clear most of the pin board waste, but for this I chopped everything with a chisel.

Here's one of the tail boards with a DMT sharpened chisel,

And here's another tail board with an Ultex sharpened chisel,

Bottom line is I couldn't tell them apart. The stones sharpened in pretty much the same way, taking a similar number of strokes. The chisel looked pretty similar after being sharpened on both brands of diamond stone. It seemed to hold an edge the same. And most importantly the chisel performed pretty much identically with both stones in terms of feel and action in the wood.

I guess the real test will come in ten years time, when you could start to see how the Ultex stones held up after use, and also we had no insight into sample variation. But, there's no denying, initial impressions were very favourable. Harry (the engineer) also checked the Ultex stones for flatness and reckoned they were better than a thou, which also compared satisfactorily against the DMT stones.

At the deal prices those Ultex stones seem like an incredible bargain!

 

[D_W]

This is only my opinion, being a real perv when it comes to buying sharpening stuff - I just can't help myself sometimes. I've had the following of things in the diamond world:
* two atoma 400s (love them, not cheap anywhere)
* two dmt duosharps, and a large 220 grit bench stone (black) style - the one with the raised plastic base
* two chinese two sided steel types that "best sharpening stone" sells in the us, they are 8x3 stones 400/1000 with the normal diamond pattern on the surfaces, steel core about 8mm thick.
* two chinese types that were sold as "DMD" tools on alibaba, ebay, and banggood sales sites. marked 300/1000 - 8x3 stones with steel core, came with a nice rubber base and were $20 each -with shipping!!
* two ezelap stones
* two other cheap diamond devices (one from harbor freight, four sided block, and a 2x6 double sided diamond from ebay - chinese source - booth of those were about $10 each)

Of all of those, I found atomas to be the most durable in staying constant, and they're dead flat. The DMT duosharps are dead flat, so is the bench stone (the dia sharps are not, i was able to see that in person at a local woodworking store and avoided trying them). The remaining chinese stones weren't that flat, but for a skilled sharpener, none of them would be a problem for anything other than back flattening (even then, in skilled hands, you can still make do with them as long as you don't just blindly wipe a wide iron back and forth on a long concave surface).

the chinese stones have lasted as well as the DMTs did, one of them from "Best sharpening stones" has let a small patch of plating loose entirely, but the stone still works otherwise. They all cut very slowly compared to what they were like when they were new.

The best bargain among all of them is the ezelap stones - they are the only polycrystalline (or partially polycrystalline) stones of the bunch, so as they get finer, they get a nicer feel rather than a dull or sparse feel, and they make a better edge without huge strays scratches like you get with DMTs and the chinese stones.

"DMD" still sells the $20 stone I bought, but I think it's more like $30 with shipping and no base now, so it's not quite so much of a bargain. It looks exactly like the ultex stone you show, and is just fine for working bevels. Initial flattening of tools can always be done with sandpaper more economically than it

(I also had a dia flat for short period of time as i was horse trading with Stu Tierney at tools of japan - he wanted to have one for examination - it didn't look like $180 worth of gear to me, but maybe it would be to some others. I also never had an urge to buy any of the very expensive other brands of rebranded chinese stones out there, as electroplate and monocrystalline diamonds pretty much means the same thing in any decent quality stone - in terms of wear and life. I won't be buying anything more from DMT - they do make a decent product, but in the long term, diamond hones are disposable because none lasts forever cutting well. they might as well be bought for a disposable tools price).

 

[deema]

I bought the double sided stones from ITS when it was highlighted last year on this forum. I think they were £15 each, or £7.50 a side. A year on and their still like new, i would have still been happy if they were now showing signs of ageing for the price. I originally wanted one to have a go at flattening my Arkansas storms with which the course stone does rather well!

 

[D_W]

We don't get the "ultex" brand over here. Other than having the brand imprinted in it, they look just like the ones that "best sharpening stone" or whatever the retailer is called sells for $45 over here.

You're getting it for a better price!! I always suspected the ones sold for $45 were a fairly good deal for the retailer given the origin.

 

[D_W]

If you like lots of them, the stone with a rubber base is $5-$6 on alibaba. It's the style of base with threaded plated rods that cost about $18 here, with some woodworking retailers charging closer to $30.

...

minimum order................................................................500

i'll gladly give $20-$25 for a single one instead. Reminds me of a relative who bought a partial truckload of bananas because the per pound price was spectacular. He was a salesman and thought he would find enough people he knew locally to buy a box each. You can imagine that most people don't want an entire box of bananas, and he learned that pretty quickly and found he couldn't eat the rest faster than they could rot.

 

[D_W]

Oh my...here's the same thing, not sure who faithfull is:

http://www.faithfulltools.com/p/FAIDWKI ... ng-Station

(42 pounds before VAT, 51 after)

!!

Over on aliexpress, one of the vendors of stones didn't use a blank one as their example, they used the one with the faithfull mark on it!!

Kudos to ultex, of course, for passing the stones along to consumers without so much markup.

 

[No skills]

Obviously the longer these things last (assuming their still effective) the better, but you do have to take the view that these 'budget' items are a disposable - interested to see how the lifespan compares to the premium diamond plates but I spose we won't know for a while

If I ever get enough of my life back to start making things from wood with pointy bits of metal again I think I'll get a few years out of them, I'm a bit heavy handed (not deliberately so - I'm just ham fisted) so we'll see if I start stripping the coating off or if their a better build quality than some of the other tat I've used.

I have a double sided fallkniven 'stone' that I've only really broken in, I have no idea what sort of grit the fine side is - I'm going to compare the results to the 1200 ultex see if their similar.

 

[D_W]

Obviously the longer these things last (assuming their still effective) the better, but you do have to take the view that these 'budget' items are a disposable - interested to see how the lifespan compares to the premium diamond plates but I spose we won't know for a while

If I ever get enough of my life back to start making things from wood with pointy bits of metal again I think I'll get a few years out of them, I'm a bit heavy handed (not deliberately so - I'm just ham fisted) so we'll see if I start stripping the coating off or if their a better build quality than some of the other tat I've used.

I have a double sided fallkniven 'stone' that I've only really broken in, I have no idea what sort of grit the fine side is - I'm going to compare the results to the 1200 ultex see if their similar.

I've had one of my budget hones for about 8 or 9 years, my oldest dmt duo for about 10 or 11. They've held up similarly, I'd say the budget chinese hone is faster cutting (still use it for kitchen knives) than the dmt duo, but the duo hasn't lost a plating spot yet and the chinese hone has lost one. The dmt duo lost its cutting power more quickly.

What was less than impressive to me at the time was that I paid about $70 for a duosharp and then found, just like the cheap ones, that it was disposable because the diamonds are easily ripped from the electroplate. Never lapped coarse stones with either one.

the really cheap recent $20 DMD milled steel plate hones seem similar in durability thus far. They are all a party to use flattening the backs of something for the first couple of weeks and then they're all similar after that (which makes for a good honing stone, but not so great at fast removal).

The really really cheap ones (like the two sided cards that are five dollars and then 10 dollar four sided box that they sell at import stores here) are not as promising. The diamonds come off of those even as new, and they contaminate fine hones. They also seem to have some really big strays in them, Other than those two types, though.

 

[matthewwh]

Reminds me of a relative who bought a partial truckload of bananas because the per pound price was spectacular. He was a salesman and thought he would find enough people he knew locally to buy a box each. You can imagine that most people don't want an entire box of bananas, and he learned that pretty quickly and found he couldn't eat the rest faster than they could rot.

If you go out into the woods in PA there's probably a man with a very big kettle who would take half a truckload of bananas off you.

 

[rafezetter]

After being reminded in another thread that the ITS single sided stones were "on sale" again I bought the 300, 600 and 1200 stones just a few days ago and I am kicking myself I didn't do it sooner.

Even though I am a fan of wet n dry scary sharpening, there is something very annoying about the facts that the wet n dry loses it's cutting action very quickly and once you've torn it, you have to replace that piece. Oh and there's issue of once it's been used a few times it gets wrinkles that won't flatten out again even in use. (or that could just be me)

So the £10 worth of wet n dry paper doesn't take that long to use up.

The ultex stones have made sharpening a pleasure again - I'll keep the scary sharpening for the 1200+ grades up to 5,000 but below that for reshaping / flattening it'll be the ultex from now on - so much so I'm already looking at a 220 diamond and an 8000! oh dear... how much?

Edit: I have now learned that 2 of the 3 stones I bought are NOT FLAT - please read this thread:
ultex-diamond-stone-owners-please-read-help-required-t100361.html

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Using decent quality w&d and white spirit I don't have any problem at all with wrinkling. Are you using water?

 

[D_W]

If you go out into the woods in PA there's probably a man with a very big kettle who would take half a truckload of bananas off you.

This may be too obscure of a reference, but aside from the guy who was cooking people on Hawk Mountain and serving them to guests...(Mathias Schambacher for the curious)

....if you find someone in PA with a kettle in the woods, they're probably making scrapple!

 

[rafezetter]

Using decent quality w&d and white spirit I don't have any problem at all with wrinkling. Are you using water?

No, window cleaner. Maybe because it still has a water component that might be causing it, I guess I could use white spirit instead for the W & D.

 

[JohnCee]

Harry (the engineer) also checked the Ultex stones for flatness and reckoned they were better than a thou, which also compared satisfactorily against the DMT stones......

At the deal prices those Ultex stones seem like an incredible bargain!

I've a couple of these Ultex stones and am very happy with them. But I had to return them twice before I got flat ones.
ITS were very efficient at sorting this out, however.

 

[MIGNAL]

Time will tell. My Ezelap 1200 is still cutting like it's . . . . 1200G, 3 months on. I was hoping it would turn into 2,000G by now. My cheaper Trend combo, after 3 years, is cutting much finer than it's stated grit. In fact it was doing so just one month after purchase.

 

[xraymtb]

How important is it that they are flat? I've just checked mine and the 1200 has a hollow along its length. Flat side to side.

 

[D_W]

Flat side to side is more important. Hollow along the length is fine for bevel work, use sandpaper on a flat surface if you need to do work on the back of something (that's hard on a diamond hone, anyway).

 

[xraymtb]

That's what I suspected and I'm moving from wet n dry on float glass so have that covered.

 

[mr edd]

Hi
I was wondering if anyone had used the DMT Dia-flat for the purpose of flattening Waterstones for any significant length of time and if so how they hold up?
I currently use wet and dry 220/40 on glass to flatten my workshop water stones.

Cheers
Edd

 

[MIGNAL]

Carry on using the wet/dry. Perhaps a coarser grit, 180 or even 120.