Xcalibur/Harvey set up

[wcndave]

One thing that I don't quite get is the telescopic sliding table fence.

It extends about 30cm, this certainly could have been more, my Scheppach extended by 60cm odd...

However the main thing is the tape system. You can adjust the tape wherever, it's clearly designed to be moved about as it's not stuck down, rather has a locking wheel.

And there are two rows of numbers. If you put the tape so the far right of the stop is on the actual number (ie the tape is exactly relative to the blade), then I would expect that when you move the stop to the extension, and then move out the extension, the pointer on the lower half of the tape would show you the extended measurement. It looks like it ought to do this, but I can't see that it does.

The tape does not go on to the extension bar, so you don't know where you are at (the lack of pointer or some way to set stop accurately is a bit of a pain).
However if you did measure accurately, the stop will be at about 77cm, and the pointer on the secondary scale is at 87cm.

The secondary pointer is not movable, in fact that part of the scale starts at 80cm. I could move the stop out to 80 on the extension (with manual measuring or some jig), and then move the tape so the pointer is on 80cm, and then move out the extending arm. However it seems like an awful lot of faffing, and i have to spend ages setting the tape back again for normal cuts...

Any thoughts on this most welcome!

A final note on the sliding table.

I love having a ST, doing kitchen cabinet sides, I cannot imagine doing them on a sled of some sort.

However the mitre is secured in four different places, so it's rock solid, but it also is about 7cm from blade.

So if you want to rip a long board with more than 7cm on left side, you need to remove the ST mitre.

That means setting it to square again, and using the five cut method and adjusting takes time, and uses up a lot of boards!

I find myself now cutting with bandsaw or track saw, down to a few mm, and doing final rip on TS.

It's just a shame there's no way to remove mitre without losing settings.

It's not a deal breaker, and I still rather have the ST than not, but you need to occasionally plan around it.

The reason I say long board, is that you can pull the table back 48" which means any ripping of boards under 48" can be done without obstruction.

 

[Myfordman]

Hi. I am very happy. The arbour looks plenty long for dado.

Thanks Dave,
To take a full dado set, there should be about 3/4" of thread projecting through the nut when a std blade is fitted.

The MK1 had a scheme to remove the end of the arbor by unscrewing it and fitting a longer one that was sold separately.
in this way they got round the CE marking issue allowing the saw to be marked but the dado adaptor and blade set were unmarked.

Maybe they have the same scheme? is your saw CE marked?

Cheers
MM

 

[Bluekingfisher]

No problem at all, my saw is similar but not the one in question. I have the Laguna PS saw with the dovetail trunnion set up, which is a burden as it requires some effort to raise the blade.

However, the saw posted is very similar to mine with a couple of exceptions, being the door to the motor being on the left (mine on the right), the trunnions and a quick release riving knife function on the posters saw. Mine is operated by a 17mm spanner. No big deal but the quick release is a nice touch. Theother difference is the arbour on Dave's saw is 3omm, where as mine is 5/8". They both accept dado blades (which I am a big fan of).

I do not have the ST, I honestly prefer the solid cast wings, however the ST has some benefits. I also like the fact the starter swith extends with the ST, preventing the need to duck under the table to turn it on/off if the starter was affixed to the cabinet like mine.

I can't offer assistance on the measuring set up on the mitre gauge but p[ossibly the two different settings are relevant to where the fence of the mitre is located. perhaps one scale is for setting the fence right up to the blade and the other when set back the 7cmm you mentioned. Or, is it to do with making angled cuts, which of course alters the distance from piece to the blade when cutting???

With regards to the cast wings. If you were to use the left cast wing on the right you would be placing a heck of a lot of weight and on the right side of the saw, particularly the fence rails. On my saw I was provided with a melamine covered insert with a metal frame to sit between the two rails providing me with a greater surface working area.

When setting the tables and wings, here is what I do. Align the table and wing as close as you can without getting to precise (or stressed) Tighten them as you would normally. Don't go crazy or you will crack the cast or strip a thread. A snug tighten is enough so easily slackened off without applying force which knocks your settings off. Now, keep one of the bolts as is ( I work from left to right) so I keep the bolt on the left snug, then slacken the other 3 bolts with a slight turn, just enough to take the pressure off. The wing should still remain in situ without falling out of it original position. If you have a dead blow hammer or rubber mallet use that to tap the far side of the wing (opposite end from the snug bolt) just where it meets the main table. The wing should have dropped a tad. If so snug this bolt, only snug, do not heave on it. Then go to the first snugged bolt and back if off a tad and tap here too. If it drops a fraction tighten then snug it again. If the wing and table is level, re snug the two middle bolts. From here, you can set fully in place by tightening the bolts for a permanent fix. It may be an idea to tighten alternative bolts a little at a time until you are satisfied.

I should have mentioned beforehand to check the plane of the table and the wings. If they are not on an even plane you can shim with brass shims, which can be purchased from model and craft shops in thin metal plates in various thicknesses. You could also use the metal from a soft drinks can but it would have to be way off as the drinks can is relatively thick in comparison to the brass shims.

The blade gaurd on mine too showed the dual lift blade gaurd although the one with the saw is the same as yours. It isn't a problem for me as I use a shark boom gaurd

 

[wcndave]

Actually although the starter switch is brought forward under the ST, it does not move with it. This means that when cutting a large piece, you have to reach fairly far under, so not ideal. However I can imagine if it moved that cable management could become an issue.

The cab opens on left I guess cos the blade tilts to the left.

I measured the arbor, looks like you've got about 1/2" realistically, although you may not need the flange bolt?

Interesting what happened to my zero clearance insert. I think the particles from chip board have effectively sandblasted it leaving a textured finish where the harder parts of the wood have not been worn away.

This is with only a few weeks use mind.

 

[Myfordman]

Thanks Dave. Should be ok for most of a dado set then.
Fascinating photo of the insert. I think it must illustration differential hardness, rather like the effect of over enthusiastic pressure washing wooden garden furniture.
DAMHIKT!

 

[DennisCA]

It makes ripping bevels safer, as there is nothing to get trapped between the fence and the angled blade.
Enjoy your new toy.

Is that really such a big deal when using the proper methods and equipment (riving knife, low & short rip fence, blade guard)? Seems to be in america that left tilt is a big thing because they often lack one or all of these features on their saws, but most modern euro saws are AFAIK still right tilt. This guy makes a pretty convincing argument that right tilt saws are fine to cut bevels on, also has speciality jigs:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread. ... -left-tilt

 

[wcndave]

I checked out the CE mark, as per a request, and there is one there.

You'll note that there is no Xcaliber badging anywhere, and as it was always rebadged from a clone, perhaps we should not be calling it that anymore.

It is made by Harvey, which is a site I have visited many times when looking up the model number in search engines.

I had rather hoped that when I removed the left table, I would end up with something like this

http://www.harveymachinery.com/prod...tId=f536747f-960c-46fb-8383-bb74d6ddf144.html

I.e. a really long support area. However I guess they make various customisations / alterations for different resellers, as my fence was never that long.

The Laguna series in the US seem to have the longer fences, perhaps that's just a sign of the extra space they tend to have.

One thing I note in the pictures on the Harvey site is that the fence and crown guard are the actual versions i got, rather than the one on woodford site.

Looking at complete range, http://www.harveymachinery.com/prod...ontProductsCategory_show01-1298364098944.html

It looks like the pictures on woodford are for the 110LG, rather than the 110LGE. Perhaps the E stands for Europe...

 

[Bluekingfisher]

It is interesting to note the 30mm extended arbor for dado stacks supplied on your saw. Ironically the dado set is most used in the US where the standard arbor circumference is 5/8". Most dado sets extend out, or cut up to 7/8" in width, or perhaps a tad over, so I am not sure therefore if you could load a full dado stack onto the available arbor shown in the photograph? That said, you may be able to load chippers up to say 3/4", which is as much as you would usually need.

Still on the dado aspect. In general the use of a stacked dados is not encouraged in Europe or at least the UK, therefore it is difficult to purchase dado stacks in our woodworking outlets. And, if they can be found they tend to be of the 5/8" version which of course is no good for a Euro saw arbor. Makes me wonder then why an extended 30mm arbor is installed when obtaining a 30mm dado set is quite difficult??

I hate to sound a jobs worth but I would not recommend using soft wood as a throat insert plate, unless you attach a couple of braces along the length underneath. The likelihood of it flexing, and to my cost, breaking when passing stock over it is quite high. Plywood inserts with the cross grain is a far safer option IMHO.

David

 

[wcndave]

Woodford who sell the Harvey formerly known as Xcalibur also sell the dado stack to go with it.

http://www.woodfordtooling.com/catalog/ ... tegory/68/

I am really tempted by it, as when I watch videos on YT there are sets of tasks that take seconds, which take me a long time with a router or other technique.
Eg to cut out say this:

Is easy with dado stack and a sacrificial mitre fence.

With a router you have to build all kinds of supporting jigs etc, and for one piece it seems a waste of time.

However on the other hand, I hear lots of bad things about dados and that one reason US has so many more accidents is due to their widespread use.

So in two minds really... however the point is that the stack should fit the saw.

 

[Myfordman]

I'm a regular user of Dado sets on my original Xcalibur and RAS and that is my choice but I have to say, making something of the relative dimensions shown in your sketch would be particularly dodgy and would almost certainly need some sort of jig. Making it in a much longer and wider board and then cutting it to length and width or making several at a time from a larger board would be safer.

MM

 

[Bluekingfisher]

I would tend to agree with Myfordman, using a dado has its hazards and must be given the utmost respect. ZCI are a must when working with dado stacks. You cannot of course use a conventional blade gaurd when using a dado sets. Although not an issue for me as I use and overhead boom gaurd, even this can get in the way when working close to the fence. The up side is of course the stack is never usually raised more than 13mm or so so using the appropriate push stick keeps the valuables away from the blades

If you are considering purchasing a dad stack I would look at the reviews on Amazon for the Woodford dado stack, they are not to complimentary. I have never seen those particular blades although I would guess made somewhere in the Pacific rim?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/8-inch-Stacked- ... dado+blade

I have several sets, Forrest and Freud being themain brands. They are not cheap £250 - £300 a set but the quality of the tools and resulting cuts are excellent. I also figure my fingers and hands are worth way more than a couple of hundred quid.

David

 

[wcndave]

Interesting. The picture i posted was an example of something made by Steve Ramsey last week, and i would feel far more comfortable about that (with table sled) than a dado for shelf housing where i pass a large piece over an unseen blade.

Shelving i can do quickly and easily with router. It's the nibbling away which I would use it for, which is far quicker with 3/4" instead if 1/8" thickness.

My main YT subscriptions are wood whisperer and steve (wwmm), and they are both constantly using dado stacks. However I am not sure I'll go there for £300.

 

[r0nmlt]

I have finally managed to put together my Excalibur HW110WSE. I had received my table saw with Dave back in July, but due to work commitments and family it was sitting in the pallet for quite some time. Dave's post was very informative over what I would be expecting to face when I would have started putting the machine together. To be honest his post was more informative that the 3 manuals I got.

The only difference between Dave's machine, and mine, is the router table, which is also a very sturdy built like the rest of the machine. I was very pleased with the quality and built of the machine in general. It feels robust and well engineered. Dave did a very good roundup of the positives and negatives I will be only highlighting the different route I took for information and for feedback.

The manual of the router table states you can mount the router table directly to the main machine as well as on the side of the right hand table. This set me thinking into actually using both wings, one on each side and mounting the routing table further right and the sliding table further left. To do this I had to engage the expertise of a friend of mine to drill and tap into the cast iron M8x1.25 threads.

Having done that I mounted the wings onto the main table and then the router table and the sliding table went smoothly on either side of them.

With this kind of setup the rear rail went on effortlessly as the rail was designed for the table with the side tables only. Setting the rear rail up when replacing one or both of the side tables with another part will result in mismatched holes and new holes needing to be drilled.

The length of the rear rail, in the format I used, started shy from the sliding table onto half of the router table. This is more than enough as with router installed the fence still cannot go any further.

The front rail was a tad more laborious. I first dismantled the rail angle bracket from the box rail and installed the bracket to the machine and side wings. Again this went on effortlessly without the need of drilling any new holes or cutting it. The box rail was a little too long just like in Dave's case, but in my case I only had to remove about 2 ½ - 3" at most. The final length of the front rail again extends from the sliding table onto half of the router table.

This is where I left the build yesterday night. All table surfaces are flush except the sliding table which is a couple of mm higher. Tonight I will put on the fence and saw and align those two.

My only concern with the route I've taken, is the increased distance between the saw and the sliding table. For smaller pieces I think I will have to employ the standard mitre as the mitre of the sliding table is too far off.

One last thing I have also found the same 2 odd 9/16" screws. I have presumed these go on the front of the machine and the other 4, 13mm screws, would then go to affix the rail to the wings. This keeps "symmetry"!

I will update again as soon as the final bits are in place and the alignment is all done.

Ron.

 

[wcndave]

Sounds good.

I did think of tapping into left wing however had 3 problems with it:

1. tapping those holes
2. the increased distance
3. extra legs required

I can of course still do this later

I would suggest you make a table sled for smaller pieces, much more accurate and easier / safer too.

One difference I had from what you put above, was that I did not need to drill / cut the back rail when i removed the left fence.

I am also surprised you had to cut the front box. If you have the left wing on, I am not sure you need to do this. I also took off a couple of inches, however I also moved the rail to the right slightly, again without drilling new holes in rail, as those there do fit further along.

In any case as long as you get it all flat and sturdy, sounds like there's more than one way to do it ;-)

 

[r0nmlt]

If you decide on putting back on the left side table in between the machine body and the sliding table, you don't need extra legs as the sliding table already has supporting legs. If on the other hand you intend using the left hand wing table on the right, you will need legs. I didn't put on any legs as the router table has already a leg and therefore at both extremities I have legs.

The back rail needs no cutting, but without the left table it would have had to move right and it would have matched only with 2 holes and would have had to be held only on 2 bolts if I remember correctly. It is now holding up on 4 (2 on the wings and 2 on the main machine).

I installed the front rail without moving it right. This I did to avoid drilling new holes (as it would have matched only with a couple of holes) and to avoid cutting reliefs for the T-Slots. TBH I still have to cut reliefs for T-Slots of the router table as there is a mismatch there.

I had to cut the box rail as I didn't move the rail right.

I agree there is more than one way to set things up which sometimes got me a bit confusing and worrying as I didn't want to go ahead to do something and ending up messing something else. This also irked me up a bit as I bought a complete package and didn't expect to have to stay deciding on which setup is best for me. I also was sold the mobile base which is useless when you have the ST and the RT. Anyway what's done is done and I tend to prefer to look at the way forward rather than contemplate the decisions past.

This is also the reason for this post. There are many experienced people on here that can smell danger a mile away and they might be able to highlight any wrongdoing from my end if any.

I will try and get some good lighting tonight and post a photo.

 

[Wizard9999]

I will try and get some good lighting tonight and post a photo.

Ron

Did you ever get around to those pictures? I'm very interested in this saw and would be keen to see pictures of yours.



More generally I wondered if there is anyone on UKW has one of the new versions and is based a bit further south than Stockport? I'm close to Basingstoke and would be keen to see one in the flesh, without the necessity to travel quiet so far.

Terry.

 

[wcndave]

I'm definitely further south, although Italy might be a tad too far south...

 

[wcndave]

I now have mine connected to a dedicated 16A plug, rather than an extension lead from building site power supply. It starts quicker and with less groan, so definitely an improvement.

It may be worth installing it on a rubber mat to absorb some vibration noise - it's pretty hard to move once tables are installed, and almost impossible with the sliding table - unless you're happy to realign everything. So try and get it in the final position first.

If you have no sliding table / router, you can use the wheel base of course.

 

[Wizard9999]

I'm definitely further south, although Italy might be a tad too far south...

Yes, but given the autumn chill in the air this morning as i headed to work maybe I could be tempted :lol:

 

[wcndave]

It's 1,900m, so getting pretty cold here too!

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