black walnut with sapwood

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devonwoody

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It appears sapwood and black walnut have a history.

The last two consignments I have had, had wavy edge and lots of sapwood, I felt dissapointed and cheated but it seems common enough and have not had any adverse effects or heard of any on my tissue boxes. It does add variation imo to small items like the t.b.s.

Anyway here is a link to the subject.

http://www.woodworkerssource.com/blog/?p=747
 
I have one of your boxes dw, and the sapwood adds a nice contrast. Not so sure on furniture though.
 
if you buy waney edge boards they are going to have sap wood and the centre planks will have heart wood when buying boards these areas should be excluded from the cubic foot measurement. sap wood is fine except for might want to be treated for woodworm as it is what the little beggars what as it has loads of energy in it!
 
rdesign":1s22u1qe said:
if you buy waney edge boards they are going to have sap wood and the centre planks will have heart wood when buying boards these areas should be excluded from the cubic foot measurement. sap wood is fine except for might want to be treated for woodworm as it is what the little beggars what as it has loads of energy in it!

It won't be excluded on American black walnut in the measure.
 
rdesign":ku6pl42a said:
if you buy waney edge boards they are going to have sap wood and the centre planks will have heart wood when buying boards these areas should be excluded from the cubic foot measurement. sap wood is fine except for might want to be treated for woodworm as it is what the little beggars what as it has loads of energy in it!
Sapwood in American cherry and American black walnut is not a fault in the American grading system, so you're going to get sapwood even where the boards are square edged. You can't buy imported waney edged American cherry or black walnut in this country as the American practice at the large commercial sawmills is to crown cut the log rotating the log through either 180º or 90º after cutting off two to four boards from one face, and eventually boxing the heart. After the boards are cut out the edges are straight line ripped ready for packing in a kiln, then seasoned, and finally removed from the kiln, graded, and stacked and bound in square edged stacks ready for shipping.

I am aware of at least one timber merchant here in the UK that from time time has imported either cherry or walnut logs from North America and processed them meaning they've been able to offer waney edged boards, usually simply through and through sawn. Occasionally smaller or specialised North American sawmills convert roundwood, and sell the resultant spectacular waney edged boards to discerning clients. Most of this production is aimed at specialised high end buyers in North America, but they also sell these boards to overseas buyers, including buyers in the UK and elsewhere. In most cases these boards tend to be from exceptional trees, either very long and/or wide, and/or very large with prized figuring, etc, and as you can imagine these boards sell at a premium.

As to regular run of the mill square edged walnut and cherry from North America, the sort most of us buy, it's very likely that just about all of it will have been steamed in specialised steamers to change the colour of the sapwood so that it closely matches the heartwood, superficially at least. The problem is, in my experience, that as soon as you start machining the wood it isn't long before you cut through any sapwood that's changed colour during the steaming process and its whiteness reveals itself. What you do with it after that is down to the designer and maker, eg, cut it out, leave it show, or undertake a sap staining routine.

Common furniture beetle is fond of walnut, and especially fond of its sapwood, as you say, and if it's being stored in a damp and cool shed, treating might be a good idea, but if the walnut is made into indoor furniture then nowadays, with climate control and decent insulation, etc, in most habitable buildings common furniture beetle is not likely to be a big problem. Studies show that a wood MC of 12% is a particularly harsh environment for the grub that causes the damage to survive. Most indoor furniture nowadays won't get up above about 13% MC for any significant length of time, and for long periods of the year it's likely to be below 10- 11% MC, so the grubs don't get much chance to do their damage, and are more likely to die than chew up the wood. It is possible of course that indoor furniture may be stored in relatively damp environments, eg, during house moves, etc, and there is obviously some increased risk in those circumstances of common furniture beetle becoming a problem, especially if the furniture experiences higher MC levels for extended periods. Slainte.
 
SD, my abw had upto 100mm of sapwood each side of board.

that seems excessive?

When does it become heartwood? the next growing season?
 
devonwoody":1z2zpd59 said:
SD, my abw had upto 100mm of sapwood each side of board.
that seems excessive?
When does it become heartwood? the next growing season?
My guess is that you had a tangentially cut board (crown cut) from not far under the bark. Were the growth rings, as viewed from the end of the board, not too far off straight? In other words, the arc they described indicated quite a large radius, if we imagine talking about a circle.

Sapwood changes into heartwood over several years in most species, and the rate of change from conductive sapwood to non-conductive heartwood varies from species to species, and in the same spacies the rate of change is affected by climate, soil conditions, etc. Sometimes the change takes place over just a few years, and in others it may take a decade or three to fully convert from sapwood to heartwood. I don't know for sure how long American black walnut typically takes to go through this process, but like you I've sometimes seen quite wide sapwood on board edges. Sapawood gradually loses its ability to conduct liquids (nutrients) up the tree and along the branches. The most recent growth is the most effective at transporting nutrients of course, and this ability gradually tails off the closer to the centre of the log you get. Slainte.

Here's an image of a yew branch I took a few years ago. You can see the change from sapwood to heartwood, and you could also count the years of growth during which the transition occurred.

 
thanks SD, I suppose it is just as well I did not complain to my supplier re that sapwood, it would have displayed my ignorance.

Mind you I recall a member down in Cornwall (Lord something?) who made some furniture in abw who had no sapwood on his project.
 
However you look at it, I do think you are entitled to be unhappy if you are getting 100mm of sap on both sides. Few makers that I know would be happy to use sap in furniture anywhere that it will show. My experience has been that full price has only been expected if there is little or no sap showing on one face. The views of customers generally are indicated by the fact that when, on a couple of occasions , I have gone to buy american cherry or walnut and found they are short of stock, it has all had masses of sap i.e. no one wants it, so if it is acceptable to you, ask for a lower price.

Jim
 
In the joinery I used to work in, the majority of our cherry had large amounts of sapwood. So much so that we had to use it for painted furniture.
 
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