Youtube bandsaw

[p111dom]

I both agree and disagree with your comments Scrit. Yes I have read books on safety but to be fair most of them were either old uk publications pre EU current safety standards or US publications where it seems to be accepted that people will use table saws etc without guards for certain operations. The older books describe in detail the pitfalls and dangers far more than modern publications I've read. They really do stress the dangers and teach you techniques to minimise the danger and yes I do stress danger. You are right to say that not all cuts are safe such as your 12 inch example. In my pervious post I talk about not thinking twice about making cuts on my new saw where as before I would have cut it a different way. In situations such as your example I would have either pre ripped it on the band saw then trimmed it with the table saw or if it were too big for the capacity I would have pre ripped with a straight edge and hand held circular saw. My point is that older books and methodology for example explain in detail the danger of the teeth on the rear of the blade moving upwards and that this can raise a board till it reaches the top of the blade and then gets thrown backwards. To prevent this it is advised to place the push stick on the top and front of the board as you cut to prevent it rising then push the wood from the rear when your hand approaches the danger zone of say 12 inches from the blade. Modern publications seem to just say statements like always use a riving knife/split fence to prevent kickback without explaining the reasons fully. You are correct technique won't always save you but on the other hand I don't think having all 10 fingers after 4 years of using a saw without guards is purely down to luck.

I don't pretend to be the most knowledgeable person on any subject but while guards and spilt fences etc are a welcome addition to safety they do not make the machine itself safe.

All that said, you wouldn't find me making a cut like that on a band saw. Absolute madness! #-o

 

[Scrit]

A little bit of history. Short rip fences appeared before the turn of the century - the 20th century. Riving knives and crown guards appeared on saws in the UK following the 1925 Board of Trade directive with retrofitting being mandated in trade premises in the 1930s (I believe). t is no bad idea to view what is imposed on trade users as it is generally imposed on the grounds of safety and after due consideration

I have major problems with those firms who import and sell equipment which is made to "standards" regarded as out-of date and/or dangerous simply because it turns them an extra penny, and there are quite a few of them.

Your example of using a push stick to hold down the work is all very well, but where the timber is pinching in very badly such a cut, especially on a 5 or 10 HP saw can still lift extremely quickly. And what of those situations where you need a push stick in the right hand to propel the material through the blade whilst applying side pressure to the rip fence with the push stick in your left hand? Yes, that can and does happen. About the only cut I can conceive which must be done without a crown guard is the one where you are splitting the top off a box, and even for that you should be using a crescent-shaped riving knife which stops just below the top of the blade - perhaps another argument for the overhead crown guard as opposed to the ones which sit atop the riving knife

Scrit

 

[p111dom]

Again mostly fair enough except do you really know anyone who is running a 10 hp saw in a domestic application? The most I've ever seen is 5 hp and that required a 32 amp supply. I think the guy really bought it to show off more than anything. OK a push stick probably won't help in this scenario but I found it worked fine on my old Kity.

 

[Losos]

It does seem that americans have a very low regard for safety. Only today I was watching video on finewoodworking.com and this chap who worringly is a tutor was using a table saw with no guards whatsoever, single long fence, and was happily pushing very small and thin pieces of wood through the blade, often running his fingers over the top of the blade and then removing the off-cuts with his hands whilest reaching over the spinning blade!! And to top it off he had the gaul to show how to be 'safe' by using a piece of ply to avoid kickback - thats the least of his worries when he actively moves his hands/fingers so close to the blade!

Oh Byron I can beat that easy :lol: Here in Czech Republic there is absolutely no consideration given to safety whatsoever.

At the weekend I watched my neighbour rip a piece of wood on an ancient table saw with no blade guard, no riving knife, no fence, no push stick, and no off switch within arms length, it was outside and he was standing on wet grass :shock:

The wood was about a metre in length and 50mm wide. My Czech is not up to explaining the dangers to him, and even if I could have spoken to him, being Czech he would have just laughed and said he knew what he was doing 'cos most Czechs are arrogant and poorly educated :lol:

 

[spadge]

At the risk of getting shot down in flames what is so dangerous about this cut?

The piece being cut is very tall and has a very small footprint. The two dangers are of break-out of the blade from the edge caused by misfeeding (toppling) or of blade breakage as the hands are extremely close to the blade. Assuming that the blade is fully in the timber (and that you are therefore protrected by it) is probably the biggest mistake - on lighter bandsaws you really can't pull enough tension to guarantee that there won't be any bowing of the blade in the cut especially on deeper cuts. And in any case it is quicker and more accurate, not to mention a lot safer, to turn the piece on a lathe..... :roll:

Scrit

Whether his bandsaw is "lighter" variety or not he was obviously well aware of it's capabilities, knew the blade would not bow and fed the timber accurately enough, despite the small footprint , to avoid any toppling. In his case I do not think it was luck it was skill and experience, and something he had clearly practiced to show off the capabilities of the bandsaw.
Not suggesting it would be safe for everyone and every bandsaw but to dismiss the guy as a grade A idiot is unkind and unfair. :roll:

 

[Scrit]

Not suggesting it would be safe for everyone and every bandsaw but to dismiss the guy as a grade A idiot is unkind and unfair. :roll:

He's a grade A idiot because he's clearly demonstrating a stupid and dangerous technique (which in any case is pretty pointless). And there are other less educated idiots who will no doubt try to emulate him...... That's the thing about the Internet - all views are equal. Even the stupid ones

Scrit

 

[Stu in Tokyo]

Well Gentlemen, and any ladies present, let me introduce myself, I'm the "Grade A idiot" that you are all talking about. :lol: (nice to be an "A" grade, would be so embarrassing to only be a "B" grade idiot )

First, I want to thank you all for your concern, "Thank You for your concern" really, I'm not ever going to claim I have all the answers or know all the questions even, I always have more to learn.

Second, in all fairness, I guess I should have put a disclaimer up, a "Don't try this at home" kind of thing, but honestly, as I live in Japan, and have so for 17+ years now, and I am Canadian, NOT a Yank, I'm not that concerned with the whole nanny state and your "Health and Safety". I think that people should take responsibility for their own actions.

I only did that cut once, and yes, it was not the safest cut, I was "VERY" well aware of that, and if you notice, I was taking it "Slow". I do realize the danger involved in such a cut, and I would not suggest anyone to try to duplicate it, nor will you see me doing it again anytime soon. The cut was done to demonstrate how well my saw cuts, I'm very please with it, and it preforms better than I had hoped for.

Lots of tools are dangerous to use, even when used correctly, stuff happens. Take chainsaws, when I was a kid we ran them with out any chain brakes on them, only jeans and work gloves for protection, now I run them with chaps, helmet, chainsaw mitts and, of course eye protection.

Or, lets talk about cars, thousands and thousands of people are killed in them each year, even when the have a 5 star rating and you are doing everything right, you can still get dead, but I very much doubt that any of you have stopped driving cars.........?

Anyways, I have drifted here, sorry about that.

I'll go and put a "Health and Safety" warning on my video.

Cheers!

EDIT, I did put a warning up, I should have done that to start, but to be honest I was just so thrilled to have the saw working so well, I guess I forgot in all my excitement.

Oh yeah, I do own a lathe, a Nova DVR. :wink:

 

[spadge]

Well Gentlemen, and any ladies present, let me introduce myself, I'm the "Grade A idiot" that you are all talking about. :lol:

First, I want to thank you all for your concern, "Thank You"

Second, in all fairness, I guess I should have put a disclaimer up, a "Don't try this at home" kind of thing, but honestly, as I live in Japan, and have so for 17+ years now, and I am Canadian, NOT a Yank, I'm not that concerned with the whole nanny state and your "Health and Safety". I think that people should take responsibility for their own actions.

I only did that cut once, and yes, it was not the safest cut, I was "VERY" well aware of that, and if you notice, I was taking it "Slow". I do realize the danger involved in such a cut, and I would not suggest anyone to try to duplicate it, nor will you see me doing it again anytime soon. The cut was done to demonstrate how well my saw cuts, I'm very please with it, and it preforms better than I had hoped for.

Lots of tools are dangerous to use, even when used correctly, stuff happens. Take chainsaws, when I was a kid we ran them with out any chain brakes on them, only jeans and work gloves for protection, now I run them with chaps, helmet, chainsaw mitts and, of course eye protection.

Or, lets talk about cars, thousands and thousands of people are killed in them each year, even when the have a 5 star rating and you are doing everything right, you can still get dead, but I very much doubt that any of you have stopped driving cars.........?

Anyways, I have drifted here, sorry about that.

I'll go and put a "Health and Safety" warning on my video.

Cheers!

Thanks for clearing that up but for me you really didn't have to bother.

I may be less educated and I may even be an idiot but I do not try and emulate everything I see on Youtube :wink:

 

[ByronBlack]

It does seem that americans have a very low regard for safety. Only today I was watching video on finewoodworking.com and this chap who worringly is a tutor was using a table saw with no guards whatsoever, single long fence, and was happily pushing very small and thin pieces of wood through the blade, often running his fingers over the top of the blade and then removing the off-cuts with his hands whilest reaching over the spinning blade!! And to top it off he had the gaul to show how to be 'safe' by using a piece of ply to avoid kickback - thats the least of his worries when he actively moves his hands/fingers so close to the blade!

Oh Byron I can beat that easy :lol: Here in Czech Republic there is absolutely no consideration given to safety whatsoever.

At the weekend I watched my neighbour rip a piece of wood on an ancient table saw with no blade guard, no riving knife, no fence, no push stick, and no off switch within arms length, it was outside and he was standing on wet grass :shock:

The wood was about a metre in length and 50mm wide. My Czech is not up to explaining the dangers to him, and even if I could have spoken to him, being Czech he would have just laughed and said he knew what he was doing 'cos most Czechs are arrogant and poorly educated :lol:

And your point is?

 

[Stu in Tokyo]

Well Gentlemen, and any ladies present, let me introduce myself, I'm the "Grade A idiot" that you are all talking about. :lol:

First, I want to thank you all for your concern, "Thank You"

Second, in all fairness, I guess I should have put a disclaimer up, a "Don't try this at home" kind of thing, but honestly, as I live in Japan, and have so for 17+ years now, and I am Canadian, NOT a Yank, I'm not that concerned with the whole nanny state and your "Health and Safety". I think that people should take responsibility for their own actions.

I only did that cut once, and yes, it was not the safest cut, I was "VERY" well aware of that, and if you notice, I was taking it "Slow". I do realize the danger involved in such a cut, and I would not suggest anyone to try to duplicate it, nor will you see me doing it again anytime soon. The cut was done to demonstrate how well my saw cuts, I'm very please with it, and it preforms better than I had hoped for.

Lots of tools are dangerous to use, even when used correctly, stuff happens. Take chainsaws, when I was a kid we ran them with out any chain brakes on them, only jeans and work gloves for protection, now I run them with chaps, helmet, chainsaw mitts and, of course eye protection.

Or, lets talk about cars, thousands and thousands of people are killed in them each year, even when the have a 5 star rating and you are doing everything right, you can still get dead, but I very much doubt that any of you have stopped driving cars.........?

Anyways, I have drifted here, sorry about that.

I'll go and put a "Health and Safety" warning on my video.

Cheers!

Thanks for clearing that up but for me you really didn't have to bother.

I may be less educated and I may even be an idiot but I do not try and emulate everything I see on Youtube :wink:

You mean you have never tried the "Menthos in Diet Coke" thing :lol:

Yeah, me neither, I have wood to cut and or turn!

Cheers!

 

[ByronBlack]

Stu - apologies for incorrectly identifying you as a Yank - i'm not great with accents. Your bandsaw - is it home-made or have you modified it - I didn't quite understand, but got the general impression that it was somewhat different to a regular bandsaw?

 

[Stu in Tokyo]

No worries Byron, I mean being called a "Grade A Idiot" don't bother me, I've been called worse by much better men, but I have to admit, being called a "Yank" well, that made me sit up and notice.......... (just kidding around folks!).

Yes, the Phoenix is mostly homemade, the reason it is called the Phoenix, is a buddy in the US had his roof collapse on his workshop, his business, and one tool that took a direct hit was his older Chiawanese 14" bandsaw, busted the cast iron frame in two.

Once he got all fixed up and running again, I asked him what he did with the wheels etc, if any parts were salvageable. I got the two wheels, the top adjuster (which was cracked and I had to fabricate myself later on) and the bottom shaft, with the casting bit that holds the bearings etc. Aside from that, the Phoenix is all shopbuilt.

Cheers!

PS, you can see a lot more of the build here.......

The Phoenix <- link

There is a page two as well.....

 

[ByronBlack]

Cheers, stu i'll take a read although i've recently bought a new bandsaw I do find these things quite interesting.

 

[Stu in Tokyo]

Sorry, the second page is mostly just pics, I detailed the build at a couple of other online forum, and have not gotten around to finishing that second page

I would have loved to buy a 14" bandsaw, but they wanted close to $1400 US......... ah 700 pounds (?) and that was WAY too big for my budget.

If anyone here has built their own bandsaw, I'd love to see it, maybe we can share notes :wink:

Cheers!

 

[Fecn]

Stu - Much respect for building your own bandsaw - I like it a lot

 

[MIGNAL]

Well Gentlemen, and any ladies present, let me introduce myself, I'm the "Grade A idiot" that you are all talking about. Laughing (nice to be an "A" grade, would be so embarrassing to only be a "B" grade idiot Embarassed)

Yeah, you yanks never do anything by halves Ignoring the safety aspect of that cut ( ) your bandsaw is obviously a very capable machine. It's also pretty obvious that it's light years ahead of mine. The build thread on Ubeaut was interesting to say the least.

 

[Stu in Tokyo]

Well Gentlemen, and any ladies present, let me introduce myself, I'm the "Grade A idiot" that you are all talking about. Laughing (nice to be an "A" grade, would be so embarrassing to only be a "B" grade idiot Embarassed)

Yeah, you yanks never do anything by halves Ignoring the safety aspect of that cut ( ) your bandsaw is obviously a very capable machine. It's also pretty obvious that it's light years ahead of mine. The build thread on Ubeaut was interesting to say the least.

Dude.....

 

[MIGNAL]

I Know, hence the smilie!

 

[Stu in Tokyo]

OK, I see the "Smiley" now, it's text and did not pop up as etc.

Cheers...........eh :wink:

 

[Lord Nibbo]

But Canada is in North America ain't it, so you is a yank then

:lol: :-({|= :wink: