YADECQ (Yet another dust extraction / collection question)

[CA71]

I’ve read lots of posts around dust extraction and collection but none seem to be able answer my own specific needs, so here goes…

I’m looking to collect/extract dust from the following which are all set up in my attic:

Dewalt Table Saw - 57/65mm nozzle at rear with a reducer to 34-40mm. Also 35mm/Airlock at the crown guard (not fitted). I have the saw sat on an ‘open’ movable cart.

Trend WRT Router Table (and trend router) - 57mm dust nozzle on the fence. Again currently not boxed in or anything.

Axminster AW1950B Band Saw - 63mm port.

Dewalt DW733 Thicknesser - 101mm port and supplied reducer to 62.5mm.

In addition I have a random or orbital sander, track saw and mitre saw which are dust generators!

I currently move my titan wet/dry vac around with a centec hose and attachments to connect to the various tools.

It’s inconvenient using it for all tools and I think the dust collection on my table saw and router table could be greatly improved.

So my plan was to buy a second dust extractor/collector, and probably something better suited to the two biggest generators of dust. If this can also help with the thicknesser then even better.

I am getting steered towards a twin motor medium record power camvac. Would this be the best type of extractor for my tools?

I know I can improve the dust situation on the band saw by attaching a hose directly under the table and closer to the blade. Same with the router table, if I enclose the trend table that will stop dust going everywhere when routing without the fence.

Finally would an air filter work ‘ok’ sat on the floor rather than the ceiling?

Am I making the right decisions here?

 

[Sideways]

The steer towards the camvac isn't a bad one, but 3 motor would be better.
Go to hooked on wood youtube channel and watch Denis' two videos he made in the last year or two about the ideal dust extraction for a hobby workshop.
Two motor camvac would be OK for machines with a 50mm port. They don't move enough air for a thicknesser. An extractor with a big fan and cotton bag would be the typical choice for the thicknesser but there is merit in the argument that a 3 motor camvac is much more versatile and probably nearly as effective for the thicknesser.

Air filter - it's there to get the fine floating stuff. Floor or ceiling will do, just try to put it where you can get air circulation from the whole shop, not just one part. Do the simple maths of workshop volume and aim for 10 air changes per hour so your dust is pulled out of the air quickly.

Edit : reducers suck ! As far as possible, keep your hoses short and as big as the unreduced diameter of the dust port on the machine.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Good steer above re the hooked on wood videos.

I think the Centec hoses are ribbed? If you can minimise the use of ribbed hose and use ducting it makes dust and chip extraction much more effective.

I doubt that you will get the best benefit from an air filter that is sat on the floor. It need not be on the ceiling but I’d be looking to place it at least waist height.

 

[Dom Brider]

I’ve read lots of posts around dust extraction and collection but none seem to be able answer my own specific needs, so here goes…

I’m looking to collect/extract dust from the following which are all set up in my attic:

Dewalt Table Saw - 57/65mm nozzle at rear with a reducer to 34-40mm. Also 35mm/Airlock at the crown guard (not fitted). I have the saw sat on an ‘open’ movable cart.

Trend WRT Router Table (and trend router) - 57mm dust nozzle on the fence. Again currently not boxed in or anything.

Axminster AW1950B Band Saw - 63mm port.

Dewalt DW733 Thicknesser - 101mm port and supplied reducer to 62.5mm.

In addition I have a random or orbital sander, track saw and mitre saw which are dust generators!

I currently move my titan wet/dry vac around with a centec hose and attachments to connect to the various tools.

It’s inconvenient using it for all tools and I think the dust collection on my table saw and router table could be greatly improved.

So my plan was to buy a second dust extractor/collector, and probably something better suited to the two biggest generators of dust. If this can also help with the thicknesser then even better.

I am getting steered towards a twin motor medium record power camvac. Would this be the best type of extractor for my tools?

I know I can improve the dust situation on the band saw by attaching a hose directly under the table and closer to the blade. Same with the router table, if I enclose the trend table that will stop dust going everywhere when routing without the fence.

Finally would an air filter work ‘ok’ sat on the floor rather than the ceiling?

Am I making the right decisions here?

The steer towards the camvac isn't a bad one, but 3 motor would be better.
Go to hooked on wood youtube channel and watch Denis' two videos he made in the last year or two about the ideal dust extraction for a hobby workshop.
Two motor camvac would be OK for machines with a 50mm port. They don't move enough air for a thicknesser. An extractor with a big fan and cotton bag would be the typical choice for the thicknesser but there is merit in the argument that a 3 motor camvac is much more versatile and probably nearly as effective for the thicknesser.

Air filter - it's there to get the fine floating stuff. Floor or ceiling will do, just try to put it where you can get air circulation from the whole shop, not just one part. Do the simple maths of workshop volume and aim for 10 air changes per hour so your dust is pulled out of the air quickly.

Edit : reducers suck ! As far as possible, keep your hoses short and as big as the unreduced diameter of the dust port on the machine.

I agree, I’ve got both twin and triple motor. Get the triple. It’s still cheaper than most entry level hvlp extractors and way more versatile. Perhaps I was convinced by Dennis the menace but they do seem like the perfect solution for smaller shops

 

[XTiffy]

You are talking of two different particle size to collect, most of these produce dust, so need a powerful suction and good filters, The thicknesser produces "chips", which is usually best with a different type of extractor. Have a look at one of Peter Millard's 10 minute workshop you tube videos, where he talks extraction and air filters. Peter is a great communicator and as I am an old boy, he was not around when I started full time woodworking in 1977, which would have avoided many of the trials and tribulations that I encountered. My favourite phrase was that used by Teach yourself books, "Give instruction to a wise man and he will be yet wiser" !

 

[Inspector]

You are talking of two different particle size to collect, most of these produce dust, so need a powerful suction and good filters, The thicknesser produces "chips", which is usually best with a different type of extractor. Have a look at one of Peter Millard's 10 minute workshop you tube videos, where he talks extraction and air filters. Peter is a great communicator and as I am an old boy, he was not around when I started full time woodworking in 1977, which would have avoided many of the trials and tribulations that I encountered. My favourite phrase was that used by Teach yourself books, "Give instruction to a wise man and he will be yet wiser" !

Be aware that thicknesses and planers don't just make chips/shavings. They also produce a lot of fine dust. I showed it in this thread a while back. Many people think that just because the chips/shavings are captured that is all they need to consider.

Pete

 

[Chris West]

The best advice I have found is within this site https://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.php#index.php

Although he does make a few recommendations on machine ducting and such, as far as I can tell, the author is not hawking for one manufacturer or another. Indeed, when he was invited to write an article on the subject for a popular woodworking magazine, the rejected his submission because it wasn't flattering to any of their advertisers. It seems he is an avid woodworker who had to quit the hobby for a few years because he became highly allergic. After a few years and several iteration, he installed a dust system that made it possible for him to return to his hobby. He used a dust meter to measure its performance and optimize until it met EPA specifications. It is long and detailed so a few highlights -

The human body is pretty good at dealing with dust of 10 microns in diameter and above. The human eye, can discern particles of 29 microns and above. In other words, the dust that is truly harmful to you, is dust you can't see. No filter is 100% perfect. The best solution is venting the dust outside, if you can. If not, get a very good filter and a high flow rate extractor. Shop vacs don't put up enough flow rate to do the job.

The optimum solution to collecting fine dust is to collect the dust right at the tool face rather than relying on filtering your shop air. In round numbers you need 1000cfm at tool to capture fine dust and of course fine dust is the problem. If you plan to roll the extractor right next to each tool you use (thereby eliminating ducting), 1000 cfm may be enough, as long as the ports on your tools are big enough (50mm is probably not big enough). If you want a stationary extractor the friction loss in the ducting will probably require you to get 1200 to 1300 cfm from a stationary dust extractor. That probably requires a 3hp extractor or greater. This also means you need to use larger ducting such as 150mm or above.

A table saw will need two points of dust collection. One below the blade (from an enclosed cabinet) and one above the blade from a crown(over the blade) collector. Both collection points need to be large enough to reduce the friction loss and collect fine dust. This means 100mm or greater. Most saw manufactures don't provide crown ports this large. You will need to make or buy and aftermarket crown collector. There are several on the market.

I hasten to add, I am in the process of upgrading my shop to these requirements so I am relying on what I have read to offer these points. Like you, I relied on a couple of shop vacs until now but as I think about the possibility of living with COPD or similar lung disease I have gotten far more interested in this subject.

 

[phil p]

Have you looked at the Numatic NVD 750/2?
It also has the 4inch port for shavings and it’s a quite versatile machine, decent suction.