Xcalibur Table Saw

[CHJ]

This CE compliance is also causing a number of bandsaws namely Startrite, from being thrown out at colleges from the beginning of the year hence why so many are appearing on E bay. There is some rule on how fast they have to stop which Startrite fail

One of the main problems with older equipment and school use is that they may rely on 'Electrical' breaking.
If the workshop area has a master Stop switch system which isolates the whole of the electrics then the reverse current or electrically operated brakes on individual equipments become inoperative.

That is the reason that people such as Axminster have an enhanced(alternate spec) model in their range specifically for Schools/colleges etc. with mechanical breaking.

 

[Scrit]

Then that might make some sense. Haven't exactly seen many mechanical braking kits around - only machine I have with an automatic one is the panel saw (German). It still makes me wonder how closely students are supervised that there is the need for a central emergency isolator, the use of which might also create additional hazards.

Scrit

 

[CHJ]

Then that might make some sense. Haven't exactly seen many mechanical braking kits around - only machine I have with an automatic one is the panel saw (German). It still makes me wonder how closely students are supervised that there is the need for a central emergency isolator, the use of which might also create additional hazards.

Scrit

It is not only schools that have this problem, my last workshop was in excess of 45,000 Sqft and consumed in excess of 3MW and had to have Stop buttons fitted every 10 mtrs or so because of the distances involved in trying to get to someones assistance. When doing one-off or non repetitive tasks the best will in the world cannot adequately guard a 300 ton press, jig borer, lathe, milling machine etc. all readily capable of twisting someones arm off or worse.

 

[Scrit]

It is not only schools that have this problem, my last workshop was in excess of 45,000 Sqft and consumed in excess of 3MW and had to have Stop buttons fitted every 10 mtrs or so because of the distances involved in trying to get to someones assistance. When doing one-off or non repetitive tasks the best will in the world cannot adequately guard a 300 ton press, jig borer, lathe, milling machine etc. all readily capable of twisting someones arm off or worse.

Agreed, although the HSE might not feel that way about it - but workshop practice in a woodworking training centre is supposed to ensure an adequate staff to pupil ratio that an experienced wood machinist is present with or near to a trainee user and that no untrained student can use any machine they unfamiliar with (hence the use of padlocks on rotary isolators, etc). The situation arising in an industrial engineering manufacturing plant is radically different from the what should be the closely supervised environment of the woodworking training shop in part because employees are frequently working in extremely noisy environments with generally somewhat greater physical separation between workstations. Presumably in that case the risk assessment says that an acceptable level of risk can be achieved by single-manning and distributed or section isolators rather than the traditional practice of multiple manning of hazardous tasks (and now I'm sounding like a TGWU shop steward). If a student can get into a situation because the level of supervision is too low then surely that says something about the college's staffing policy rather than the lack or provision of automatic mechanical braking saws to replace machinery which already had an adequate manual mechanical brake in the first place?

Now, what was that about CE marking, again? :shock:

Scrit

 

[Barry Burgess]

Scrit why are the bandsaws being sold off now as this act was 1998??

 

[CHJ]

Scrit, there is no way with my experiences of skilled craftsmen around Aircraft and in machine shops, and my distant memories of being an apprentice some time in the last century, would I ever wish to find myself responsible for a group of youngsters in a machine equipped woodshop. Anything more than one to one I could not face. I cannot believe that the people who supervise such facilities willingly are totally sane, some of the incidents in my initial training shops still give me the shivers despite our best efforts at the time.

 

[Scrit]

Scrit why are the bandsaws being sold off now as this act was 1998??

The act came into force in 1998 and the provisions to comply are found in something called ACOP (the Approved Code of Practice) which lay a rolling cycle of enactment, roughly as follows:-

Dec 5, 1998 - Sale of non limiter tooling forbidden. New standard (BS EN 847-1:1997) becomes mandatory for tooling.

5 Dec, 2003 - Use of non-limiter tooling forbidden. Braking (DC or mechanical) required on all saw benches, dimension saws, cross-cut saws, sinfgle-end tenoners, double-end tenoners, etc

5 Dec, 2005 - Braking (DC or mechanical) required on all narrow bandsaws, band resaws, vertical spindle moulders, routers, thicknessers, planers, P/Ts, etc

5 Dec, 2008 - Braking (DC or mechanical) required on all other classes of WW machinery

There are also various requirements with regard to guarding and dust extraction (ATEX regulations) as well. There are various exemptions such as some motors over 10HP (slip-ring motors) which are almost impossible to brake using DC injection, machines already fitted with manual braking (such as vertical spindle moulders), etc. The need to fit braking is very much governed by what comes out of your safety assessment - something every trade and industrial shop is now required to undertake (even one-man self-employed). It's probably the way in which the safety assessor at the college has viewed the regulations. I've talked to the local HSE office up here and they told me that automatic braking wouldn't necessarily be a mandatory requirement on small bandsaws fitted with a foot brake, although my safety assessment has to include an assessment of potential risk.

Scrit

 

[Barry Burgess]

Thanks Scrit, that explains it very well indeed.
What applies in your own garage if somebody, say a neighbor has an accident on a non CE or non compliant piece of kit?
This whole CE issue was raised by my neighbor and I could not give him an answer other than to stay out of my workshop.

 

[Scrit]

What applies in your own garage if somebody, say a neighbor has an accident on a non CE or non compliant piece of kit?
This whole CE issue was raised by my neighbor and I could not give him an answer other than to stay out of my workshop.

Probably not bad advice! I doubt that CE marking would be an issue, would it? If anyone visiting your property and has an accident, even if it's the postman delivering the mail as part of his job, then you may be deemed reponsible in the eyes of the law. That hasn't changed much since I did law at college in the 70s. There is no requirement to bring non-CE marked equipment up to spec. if used outside of a workplace, although you could be deemed negligent in your duty of care if you hadn't done so and someone had an accident on your rip saw - the one without a riving knife or crown guard. Any solicitors here care to comment on my obvious oversimplification?

Scrit

 

[Jake]

That's about the size of it. I think Woodford would also be liable for the accident as a seller of the non-CE compliant equipment. I don't know (havn't looked) if that is strict liability or dependent on the accident being caused by a non-compliance with the relevant Directives.