Workshop Doors

[wizer]

Hi Guys

The roof seems to be a non-starter at the moment. I have to go away with work for a week tomorrow and when I get back I have no help for another week. So I think I need to get on with other things instead of waiting for the roof to get done.

I should be able to manage the doors on my own. This is what I have come up with:

I know I have posted about this before, but I want to get my head around it before I start.

The timbers are 4x2", clad with 18mm WBP inside, rockwool insulated and shiplap outside. Each door will be hung on 3 or 4 heavy duty butt hinges. Is the construction method I have used ok? Will it be too heavy? If so shall I rip off an inch to make the timbers 3x2"?

The reason I chose this method was for speed and ease. Time is of the essence, believe it or not.

 

[stairman]

I would have a tendency to put both braces up from the hinge side (but as long as one is stoping the door dropping

the weight is not a concern if the hinges are set properly and strong enough BUT with 4 x 2 +18mm + cladding is going to give you a thick door the meeting edges will need some thought.

 

[SketchUp Guru]

I wouldn't make the doors any thinner but I think you could use 4x1 pieces for the internal bracing. Glue and screw the cladding to the frame and it'll be very strong.

Edited to add: You could use 12mm or even 6mm on the inside to also reduce weight a little. The strength will be created by bonding the skin to the skeleton.

 

[les chicken]

WiZer

3x2 will be plenty strong enough with 12mm ply on the inside and shiplap on the outside.

I have just replied to another post regarding doors.

The one thing that you must do is rebate the doors vertically so they overlap when shut. Otherwise you will never seal the gap in the middle to prevent draughts.

I did not notice what size the doors are. :?:

Les

 

[JFC]

Wizer , why dont you just hang two sheets of ply to close off the opening and then make your first project in the new workshop a proper pair of doors ?

 

[mel]

im with jason here
those doors are little bit "rough and ready" well a lot , actually
you were on about getting a pro roofer to do the roof
why not get a pro joiner to do the doors ????
the doors on this project will make all the difference .
do you really need such big doors to the front ???
do you really want all the neighbours seeing all that expensive machinery tools and the like ???
wait until you are certain what you want it to look like from the front of the house , and as jason says . make this as your first project during winter .
no disrespect intended about the joiner thing
mel

 

[mailee]

I agree with Mel that a good set of doors will make or break the build. I would also go for both braces rising from the hinge side as this will brace the door much better. I would also go for smaller doors too, as has been stated you will have a lot of expensive stuff in there and the less people see it the better. Just my 2p. :wink:

 

[wizer]

Cheers All

I hadn't considered the thickness of the doors being a problem for closing. Will have to work out a way to rebate the 2 doors. Possibly taking an inch off the thickness will help here.

The 18mm can indeed be reduced, i'm mainly trying to use up what materials I have left over. It shouldn't be a problem to rip down the 4x2 to 4x1 on the TS for the bracing.

Les the doors are 2m x 1m each.

Jason, Mel, Mailee: Can you explain what is wrong with the way I have decided to build the doors? I understand you don't agree with this way to build them, but you did not explain why?

With regards to the size of the doors. The doors will not be used much at all with one of them being almost never opened. Surely if I had gone for a traditional 'up-and-over' garage door or indeed the roller then i'd have the same problems? This way I actually have reduced that openeing by half. Anyway, I live in a quite cul-de-sac and I'm happy for the neighbours to see in once in a bluemoon. We never get 'passers by'. There will be no windows to the front or side of the workshop.

The bottom line is that the materials I have are essentially allready bought and if I can get these doors built and hung this side of xmas AND they'll last me 10-12 months then I have one less headache. Making 'proper' doors, using 'proper' joinery is all well and good but your talking to someone who actually has very little woodworking experience. Maybe after a year in my new workshop I will develop enough skills to make a set of doors I am proud of.

Saying all that, I am open to good advice. If you guys think that my planned method is ultimatley going to cause me problems, break, warp, fail, cause problems with the structure of the whole ws, etc, etc then please let me know and I will have a re-think.

Paying a joiner to make doors would defeat the point of not getting the roller doors, as previously planned. I have a list the length of my missus' arm of 'first jobs' in the workshop.

I don't want to sound ungrateful, I posted this as a plea for help and I apprecieate all of your comments.

 

[beech1948]

mailee,
just a thought.

Why have two doors at the front and rear.
Do you really need a 2 metre opening. How often will you open both doors. Why.?

I suggest you restrict yourself to one door at the front and one at the rear other wise it will be as draughty as a barn.

If your door width is 1 metre (39 inches approx ) then this should be wide enough for even large jobs. An external door of 33 inches should be able to be purchased fairly easily ( even if have to order) but any larger size would be problematic. The other now non-door at front and rear would become simple frame and panel and can be used as extra wall space, space for larger machines etc etc.

Its also easier to make a door(s) to fit a space of 1 meter wide and still make a good job of it.

If you take Good Woodworking magazine then there was an article inthere about 18 months ago about replacing up and over garage doors with two unequal sized wooden doors. Outcome was attractive and easy to do. It may be that this approach would give your great appearance as well as simpler more effective technique for construction. Time taken was a weekend for two doors across an 8ft opening.

regards

Alan

 

[BrianD]

Just a wild idea here :shock:

Perhaps you could consider fitting a 40" std door on one side (allowing for BAU entry) and make a removeable panel for the rest (this way you have the option of removing/entering with very large material/jobs)

Make the panel fitted so it can be removed by two persons or two smaller that you can remove.


Just a thought.

Cheers

 

[CYC]

I would support Alan's thoughts.
I too thought, why double doors on both sides!
I have a double door on my workshop and rarely open the 2 doors, but it is necessary at times. Since you have already a double door at the front you would loose VALUABLE wall space by having another one at the back.

 

[mailee]

No not at all Wizer, All I was suggesting was that you make the doors thinner and make sure your diagonal bracing runs from the bottom of the hinge side top and bottom. It would as has been mentioned to make the doors a little smaller to gain valuble space on the walls and floor for future tools and machinery. Otherwise there is nothing wrong with the design.

 

[JFC]

Wizer , i didn't realise you already had the materials and that you wanted the doors short term . Im suggesting proper doors because i have seen and done what you are intending to do and it is short term . My own gates to the back of my workshop where biscuit jointed to line them up and then glued and screwed , i then glued and screwed a plywood panel into the rebate thinking this would hold it all together . It didn't
This was a quick fix for me and only took a day , i had the intention of making proper gates but somehow have not got around to it

 

[les chicken]

WiZer

Reading your last reply. :wink: :wink:

There is nothing wrong with your ideas for building the doors. As you have stated you need to gain some experience before attempting to make some "proper doors".

The sizes are no problem for the method you fancy using. Cut the timber to make the frame, screw together "butt" joints with 3" decking screws to form the general frame. When fitting the ply use gripfix and screws every 6-9 inches. The ply will act as a brace, the method is simple and quick and will last for ages.

If you do not fancy rebating the doors fix a batten to each door this will then act like a rebate.

Use bolts top and bottom on each door so that it is locked from the inside and you are secure. :roll: :roll:

Les

 

[wizer]

my sincere thanks guys, your advice is invaluable.

double doors at each end are essential for various reasons I won't go into now.

When working out the size of each door, how do I work out the gap between the door and frame? Also the gap between each door? I have guessed 3mm, based on nothing really

Les: you suggested screwed butt joints, would half lap joints be better?

 

[les chicken]

WiZer

3mm is just about right but you may need to plane the edges of the doors as they close together at a slight angle, that is to allow for the closing radius.

I am suggesting butt joints using half lap would be easier if you left the wood 4x2. If that makes sense, a normal external door is approx 1&3/4 or 46 mm. But by fixing to ply with screws and adhesive gives you a quick door and security and warmth which is the main priority at this time of year.

Les

 

[JFC]

If you are going to make your doors 100mm thick rather than butt joint then why not do an open mortice and tenon . Its quick to do with a bandsaw and a 3d bit or even a hand saw . If you screw and glue the joint it will be much stronger than a butt joint if braced with ply .

 

[mel]

hi wizer
noticed your reply on wed just as i was about to leave for london.
its been on my mind since
was concerned more for the "temporary fix" and aesthetics ,
let me explain
temp fix ~ like jason says. you start off with the right intentions , just putting something in the place of what you would like to see ,and two years down the line you havnt done anything about it "roundtuit"
it seems to end up more of a thorn in your side , and down the line you wish you had approached the problem at the time
aesthetics ~ often overlooked in the planning stages . what will it look like . these are big at 1m x 2m each and nearly 5" thick .
so like ive said to byron black in the past and ill say the same to you
its your workshop and your building it your way
incidentally . i didnt realise that you were using materials that you had already purchased
good luck with the rest of the build anyway
and dont forget to keep us up to date
regs
mel

 

[johnnyb]

doormaking even simple doormaking is a real real pleasure(to me anyway) it is the distilled essence of woodwork. my advice is if your making them temporary make them light. like trad ledged and braced doors 1/2 inch shiplap and 3/4 straps and braces. use galvanised nails bent over at the back. forget the rebate and nail an overlaping strip to fill the gap in the middle. allow a small amount of slack between the shiplap boards and only one nail per board. the bracing will then have to work and the door is proof against swelling and shrinking. dec ent strap hinges are essential at these sizes. as is a sturdy frame. if youve never made a door make this style first. to see one made properly is quite rare. people tend to put to many fixings across the door trapping the wood so the door breaks itself apart. the door should rack until the braces are installed. bracing the doors towards the frame is thus pointless as gravity racks the far end down.