Workshop burgled, now my tools are on eBay

[Cobbs]

I have to say that I for one don't find Spectric's views disappointing. What IS disappointing however is the namby-pamby way we in the West have become injured to the idea that it's okay for scumbags to victimise us, whether it be because they have rights that somehow trump our own or because responding with measures which would adequately dissuade them would start some kind of arms race. As citizens we devolve our individual rights to protect ourselves and our property to society; if those charged with ensuring this happens aren't up to the job then the deal is clearly being breached. Telling people to just suck it up is one of the reasons that crime is so prevalent and the authorities so complacent.

I don't think any of us are inured to being robbed, or think that others have the right to our stuff without asking. I also like to think that if I caught someone in the act, I would tackle them, but that is a world away from hiring other criminals to exact my revenge retrospectively.
I also think that if we were to suddenly find ourselves living in an anarchic society that allowed such things, we would ALL be a lot more scared and worried than we are at the moment, despite all these shows of bravado.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

And how would you have felt if some child, innocently out for an adventure tried to peer in the windows?

Another time, another place. If I were the child and had got a wallop, had I told my father he'd have said serve me right for being on someone else's private property without permission.

 

[Cobbs]

If you'd survived it...

 

[Luckosaurous]

I have to say that I for one don't find Spectric's views disappointing. What IS disappointing however is the namby-pamby way we in the West have become injured to the idea that it's okay for scumbags to victimise us, whether it be because they have rights that somehow trump our own or because responding with measures which would adequately dissuade them would start some kind of arms race. As citizens we devolve our individual rights to protect ourselves and our property to society; if those charged with ensuring this happens aren't up to the job then the deal is clearly being breached. Telling people to just suck it up is one of the reasons that crime is so prevalent and the authorities so complacent.

One thing your thoughts don’t account for here are false accusations.

Sure you may feel it’s okay to hospitalise somebody who stole from you, but what if you were certain that you had found the right person when you hospitalised them, but then later found out that you had made a mistake; was it okay to hospitalise somebody who was innocent because you believed in their guilt at the time of hospitalisation? How would you feel if somebody hospitalised you under these circumstances? Would “sorry mate, honest mistake!” Be sufficient for you, or would you want to enact more violence to deter the person who inflicted violence on you from inflicting violence again?

This is a large driving factor behind the removal of capital punishment in the UK. There have been numerous cases of false imprisonment over the years, even having gone through the whole court system and proving guilt ‘beyond all reasonable doubt’. So if the police and courts with all of their resources can get it wrong, what chance does some woodworker who had their workshop broken into have?

 

[Distinterior]

About 40 years ago, I had a motorbike that was my only form of transport. It wasnt anything special, but was bought and paid for with my hard earned money.
I came home one Friday night from the pub to see that my bike was no longer where I'd left it.
I decided to walk up the road and see if I could find it, thinking some of my mates may have pushed it into an alleyway or something for a joke.
About 200 mtrs up the road, I caught a glimpse of a reflection in a number plate down an alleyway, walked down to find some scrote trying to hotwire my bike and get it started. He turned out to be of foreign origin and I just dragged him off my bike and sent him on his way........I pushed my bike back up the alley and as soon as I saw the state of the wiring loom, I saw red.......I locked the steering on the bike and ran up the road in the direction the thief had taken.
I caught up with him about a mile up the road and started dragging him back towards the local Police Station.......At which point, he started struggling and trying to fight me........At that point, I completely lost it and beat and kicked the s h I t out of him.
A local cab driver stopped and dragged me off the guy and I explained what had occurred......The cab driver helped me put the guy in the back of his cab and we drove him to the Police station.

When the desk officer asked why this guy was blooded and bruised and sobbing like a 5 year old, I told him what I'd done and why......
I never heard another thing about the incident.

If, to this day, I ever caught anyone stealing my tools or property, they would most certainly regret it.........I DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANY REASON THEY MAY HAVE AS TO WHAT HAS DRIVEN THEM TO STEAL MY PROPERTY.........If I was caught stealing from someone, they would have every right both morally and ethically, in my opinion, to beat the s h I t out of me.

I'm sure this opinion is going to offend a lot of members here, but quite honestly, I dont care.

Any stealing is wrong, but to steal someones tools of his trade is one of the lowest of the low in my opinion.

 

[JimJay]

I don't think any of us are inured to being robbed, or think that others have the right to our stuff without asking. I also like to think that if I caught someone in the act, I would tackle them, but that is a world away from hiring other criminals to exact my revenge retrospectively.
I also think that if we were to suddenly find ourselves living in an anarchic society that allowed such things, we would ALL be a lot more scared and worried than we are at the moment, despite all these shows of bravado.

I guess that you go around with your eyes closed: we already live in an anarchic society and pretending that we don't simply increases the problem. When there are no serious consequences for crimes against other people's property and persons, we're all victims just waiting for our turn to discover for ourselves that the justice system has been hijacked by do-gooders and virtue signallers..

 

[Spectric]

I DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANY REASON THEY MAY HAVE AS TO WHAT HAS DRIVEN THEM TO STEAL MY PROPERTY.

There are no reasons or justifications to steal other peoples property in any circumstances even if you have had a rough childhood and think you have been dealt a duff hand in life. Hard work may take longer but it pays off in the end and you are part of society.

 

[Luckosaurous]

There are no reasons or justifications to steal other peoples property in any circumstances even if you have had a rough childhood and think you have been dealt a duff hand in life. Hard work may take longer but it pays off in the end and you are part of society.

I think these are sentiments everybody in this thread agrees with tbf, the disagreement comes after this fact has been established. Is it okay for one citizen to enact violence on another so long as they assume* the person they are assaulting to be guilty?



*bear in mind that if they were able to prove guilt beyond all reasonable doubt that the police would have sufficient evidence to make an arrest.

 

[MikeJhn]

I have lead a sheltered life, had to look up the meaning of "Virtue Signallers"

 

[JimJay]

One thing your thoughts don’t account for here are false accusations.

Sure you may feel it’s okay to hospitalise somebody who stole from you, but what if you were certain that you had found the right person when you hospitalised them, but then later found out that you had made a mistake; was it okay to hospitalise somebody who was innocent because you believed in their guilt at the time of hospitalisation? How would you feel if somebody hospitalised you under these circumstances? Would “sorry mate, honest mistake!” Be sufficient for you, or would you want to enact more violence to deter the person who inflicted violence on you from inflicting violence again?

This is a large driving factor behind the removal of capital punishment in the UK. There have been numerous cases of false imprisonment over the years, even having gone through the whole court system and proving guilt ‘beyond all reasonable doubt’. So if the police and courts with all of their resources can get it wrong, what chance does some woodworker who had their workshop broken into have?

So it's news to you that our "justice" system isn't fit for purpose? The whole point is that if punishment for open and shut cases were more draconian then there'd be a real deterrent and less chance of innocents being wrongfully accused. There's also the problem that crooks get away with their crimes on technicalities or via the ludicrous "asked for 5,000 other offences to be taken into account". If the penalty imposed were multiplied by the number of offences the toerag is coughing to, we'd soon see a reduction in crime figures.

Complacency and prevarication have no role to play in today's crime-ridden world.

 

[MikeJhn]

But your honour I come from a broken home and have (insert trauma of the month) as a result and am not responsible for my actions.

 

[Crazy Dave]

What is it that stops you from breaking into someone's workshop and stealing their tools?

Honesty, moral values, principles and the fact that I wouldn't like it to happen to me.

 

[Luckosaurous]

So it's news to you that our "justice" system isn't fit for purpose? The whole point is that if punishment for open and shut cases were more draconian then there'd be a real deterrent and less chance of innocents being wrongfully accused. There's also the problem that crooks get away with their crimes on technicalities or via the ludicrous "asked for 5,000 other offences to be taken into account". If the penalty imposed were multiplied by the number of offences the toerag is coughing to, we'd soon see a reduction in crime figures.

Complacency and prevarication have no role to play in today's crime-ridden world.

Your assertion’s aren’t based in fact. I have a degree in criminology, and numerous studies have found capital punishment and draconian punishment not to be a deterrent at all. When somebody commits a crime, they assume they will get away with it, they don’t think of the consequences of getting caught.

It was over a decade ago and I haven’t used my degree since so I can’t remember any of the studies off hand to cite them, but as an example, USA have capital punishment for murder and yet they have one of the highest murder rates per capita of any country in the world. If the death sentence was a deterrent, why do so many Americans kill each other?

Edited for typos

 

[Distinterior]

If the death sentence was a deterrent, why do so many Americans kill each other?

Their over lenient gun laws....?

 

[Crazy Dave]

No there has been that, as well as some light hearted and humerous commentary.
It will be quite a depressing time and a bit of humour certainly lightens the mood, makes things less black. It happened, cant change that, but rather than dwell, say WTF.

Not sure why you would want to darken the proceedings of it again.

I don't.

 

[JimJay]

There are no reasons or justifications to steal other peoples property in any circumstances even if you have had a rough childhood and think you have been dealt a duff hand in life. Hard work may take longer but it pays off in the end and you are part of society.

I'd disagree with the last part: these people are outlaws and as such have placed themselves outside society. Members of society undertake to follow the rules (yes, that does include MPs); breaking those rules must bring serious retribution but unfortunately it no longer does, thanks to the bleeding hearts among us.

 

[JimJay]

If the death sentence was a deterrent, why do so many Americans kill each other?

Edited for typos

Remind me what the rate of recidivism is amongst those who've received capital punishment, would you? It's not a question of simply having a theoretical maximum penalty for something but rather its imposition.

Editing for typos is clearly a work in progress.

 

[user 43593]

I wasn't using the term as a defence, or indeed, as a legal term.

Understood. I was merely following on from the points you had made.

 

[Crazy Dave]

If you'd survived it...

I've lost count of the amount of times I had electric shocks when I was a kid messing around with stuff, it won't kill you, it's AC so you can pull away.
If it's was DC at the same current it would be curtains for sure.

 

[Cobbs]

Remind me what the rate of recidivism is amongst those who've received capital punishment, would you? It's not a question of simply having a theoretical maximum penalty for something but rather its imposition.

Editing for typos is clearly a work in progress.

So it's news to you that our "justice" system isn't fit for purpose? The whole point is that if punishment for open and shut cases were more draconian then there'd be a real deterrent and less chance of innocents being wrongfully accused. There's also the problem that crooks get away with their crimes on technicalities or via the ludicrous "asked for 5,000 other offences to be taken into account". If the penalty imposed were multiplied by the number of offences the toerag is coughing to, we'd soon see a reduction in crime figures.

Complacency and prevarication have no role to play in today's crime-ridden world.

When you say "our" justice system, do you mean in the UK or in Bulgaria? If you refer to the UK, a large part of the problem is the consistent Tory policy of underfunding the police, the courts, the prisons and the probation service, with fewer coppers spending more time on things that should be taken care of by social services et al, while the courts have huge backlogs and fewer facilities.
You seem to be conflating a desire for a decent justice system and lack of vigilantism with sympathy for criminals - it's not at all contradictory to want thieves dealt with in a sensible manner, yet still want people to not be allowed to dish out summary punishment. As posed by others, how would you feel if someone set on you for a crime you didn't commit?