Work so hard you cripple yourself

[AJB Temple]

Dude, you give a very negative view of Labour management, then a very positive view of Thatcher management, and then stuff about having a nuanced view and not being dogmatic based on the past. Seems a bit contradictory.

Nope. Read it again. I said "plenty would say". I did not say what my view is. In fact I think Blair was a good PM and Gordon Brown was just a wannabe. I don't regard Blair as a war criminal and I think he did what he thought was sensible and right. He was immeasurably better than Starmer.

 

[AJB Temple]

Jacob, I think you are a pot stirrer at heart so I don't rise to it.

However, I do think that overall Thatcher mostly made a positive impact in her day. A lot of working people strongly supported her. My parents were able to buy their council house largely because of her policies. They were not natural conservative supporters. As for starting businesses, I was just beginning my career during the Thatcher era and working for a consulting firm. We were inundated with start up business, M&A work and such like. It felt very positive. At that time I was young, rather academic and not very interested in politics. I just wanted to see the world.

The point I was making really is that old men tend to go on about the past. They all have some perspective driven perhaps by their own social standing, and talk about the past as if it is still the present. We need to get a grip or else we will continue with this pointless blame game politics.

Starmer wants to tax the rich, but they've all cleared off to Switzerland, Portugal and Spain where they are given a big welcome. So he's going to tax you now instead.

 

[Croolis]

Yes, I didn't miss the "plenty would say" bit. I'll say this though, Starmer's only just got going. Things could get much worse yet. Or maybe better. Th-i-i-ngs, da da de da da-da.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Genuine question, that I don't know the answer to: did the UK economy fall off a cliff during the '08 economic crash or had it been in serious decline before then? I don't expect trying to blame everything on the '08 crash is a useful thing to do,

The 2008 crash had its roots in the US savings and loans industry where loans were made to folk to buy homes whose repayments they could not afford.

These were then "packaged" as financial instruments and sold by major banks. They carried a credit rating reflecting the issuing banks credit rating, not that of the underlying loans. It became apparent these bonds were effectively worthless and bankrupted several major US banks.

The rot spread to UK banks. To ensure consumer confidence and prevent a financial implosion the UK had to bail out UK banks - costs broadly similar to the pandemic (massive).

Gordon Brown could not be held accountable for the failure of US S&L, but was wholly accountable for the weaknesses in UK bank regulation and oversight. As the guy at the top he carried the can for the ensuing economic mess.

but I think to answer the "why 45 years" question, probably depends on your age group. Because, being in my early fifties, in my brian I've got boom and bust under Thatcher, recession under Major (I'm told leaving the IMF was the only sensible thing he did and even that was just forced on him),then a bunch of good years under Labour, then an endless shambles under Tories.

You make a good point about age being a base for perspectives on the past. I am early 70s and economic and political awareness dates from mid-1960s. The 1970s were a true low point in post war economic history - UK underperforming vs European economies, high inflation, strikes.

Of course, this is to ignore any shambles created by pre-Thatcher Labour. Where's the cutoff point? There is none.

I suggested WW2 may be a cut off - victory reinforced an arrogance that we Brits knew best. UK was saddled with massive debts. Defeat had the opposite effect on Japan and Germany generating an energy to rebuild in complete contrast to the UK.

I suspect that the current Labour strategy of blaming the previous government for everything is as dubious as claiming that the previous government was responsible for all the good things that a sucessor government enjoys.

Agreed. There is a "tradition" of blaming all the problems on a previous administration. On the Labour defeat in 2010 there is some justification - Liam Byrne left a note apologising "I afraid there is no money".

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Agreed. There is a "tradition" of blaming all the problems on a previous administration. On the Labour defeat in 2010 there is some justification - Liam Byrne left a note apologising "I afraid there is no money".

I believe that similar notes were something of a tradition between Govt changeovers, and this note was not an isolated case. It was expected to find some kind of tongue In cheek memo when taking over No10/No11.

Sadly, the first time it was attempted to be "publicly used against" the previous Govt was by Tory in 2010.

 

[RobinBHM]

I do think that overall Thatcher mostly made a positive impact in her day. A lot of working people strongly supported her

Thatcher bribed working class with cheap council houses, she robbed local authorities of the money and stopped them building more.

housing benefit is a huge burden on councils….and the money goes into the pockets of privately owned housing associations.

These days the working class are paying dearly for that policy….millions are now trapped in unaffordable rent.

As Thatcher setting in place privatisation of so much of the U.K. assets has resulted in water, railways, gas and electricity network, energy suppliers being owned by sovereign wealth funds resulting in the structural failures and inflation playing a key role in the UKs downfall.

Labour contributed to this as well