Work experience / Helper

[mahomo59]

I have been contacted by a young woman (degree qualified) so would assume early to mid 20's wanting to get into the wood occupations industry. She is coming to the workshop Monday and Tuesday next week. She said she wants to learn general joiner duties and be successful in building and installing fitted furniture, kitchens bedrooms etc.
I'm in the middle of building a face frame wardrobe build and Monday will be FF and doors, also assembling carcasses. Birchply sprayed last week.
I've been after a helper for some time but lacked the courage to get one! Reasons being, finding the right candidate, money, time to be able to give up to show them etc. However I really believe in doing this and bringing on the next generation and for my sakes of doing everything on my own! I also have a guy coming to me Wednesday for a days work, two years at college in woodwork.
What are the suitable tasks for such a person(s)? Initially the workshop needs a quick spruce up to make it safer, this will be the pair of us. Then I was thinking of getting her to cut the scrap up on the mitre saw, get her used to this piece of equipment. My neighbour has all the off cuts for burning. Sanding duties, doors FF ETC. Then is it literally in at the deep end? Piloting for screws, chamfering FF... All under suitable surprervision.
Excited to have some help, trying to let go of control issues.

 

[Knot Competent]

It's not easy if you're a loner. You suddenly have to think for two, and also explain why you're doing what you're doing, and the reasons for it. It slows you down dreadfully, and it may be some time before you gain any benefit from it. But you'll be giving her some real hands-on experience, and passing on skills and knowledge that she'll find invaluable. Well done!

 

[MIGNAL]

Safety. You can't over emphasise this. Anyone can cut off a few fingers if they lose concentration/bad practice and I guess you have a responsibility to them.
They will cost you time, at least initially but a good clean up is a good start. Which reminds me. . .

 

[Roughcut]

Safety. You can't over emphasise this. Anyone can cut off a few fingers if they lose concentration/bad practice and I guess you have a responsibility to them.
They will cost you time, at least initially but a good clean up is a good start. Which reminds me. . .

With that in mind it's probably a good idea to do an induction.
Giving a demonstration of usage and safety procedures of the various tools/machines, the PPE required and the opportunity to ask questions, backed up with dated and signed paperwork for both parties.

 

[mahomo59]

Ah good point. I will get something typed up tonight for us both to sign in agreement. Off to Screwfix (it's only 400m away) I shall pick up some PPE for them. First aid kit too.

 

[Knot Competent]

Haha! You don't already have a first aid kit? Why am I laughing, neither do I, and I'm a qualified nurse! I have kitchen roll and phase tape, what more do I need?

 

[RobinBHM]

It will slow you down a huge amount to start.

Make a list of the common basic jobs, decide on your standard operating procedure and train, train, train it to be done that way.

Beginners wont be able to put a screw in straight or sand correctly.

Think of the routine prep and maintenance jobs, cleaning sash cramps, cleaning machines, sharpening chisels.

Some routine maintenance like cleaning and waxing cast iron tables, clearing glue off benches -make a dated list on the wall to tick off each period.

Include x time at the end of each day for tidying.

Cutting up scrap is dangerous, so training first. Keep a training matrix - you can then see at a glance what operations your trainee can do.

 

[Bm101]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/guidance/index.htm
If it was me I'd be sure to make sure where you stand from a legal point of view. Would you be an 'employer'? Insurance? etc etc.
My industry (Rope Access), is so stringent on Health and Safety that it's become part and parcel of my everyday life to a point that it's easy to forget what it's like working for yourself or for a small business. But having said that, I'd be concerned that you knew where you stood legally. Risk assessments and method statements in place? God forbid there was a serious accident but would you be liable?
I don't mean to be dramatic or to put you off, as I say, my industry is particularly stringent, so maybe I'm over emphasising, but in this day and age where every other advert is for yet another ambulance chasing lawyer make sure you're covered for your own protection. One option to maybe look at is making them self employed and you subbing the work. That way your looking at entirely different ball game. Induction, RAMS in place (your new ppe and first aid kit! ), and you're pretty much good to go.
Good luck and I hope it goes well, I'm sure it will! Don't mean to sound like a Doom Monger! :shock:

Regards
Chris

 

[doctor Bob]

"what would you like me to do now" get used to this as this is all you will here for a long time.
I have had 5 apprentices, 4 have worked out with permanant jobs at the end.
They can make huge mistakes through enthusiasm, an example being that cutting 35mm holes in doors for concealed hinges with a jig, what can go wrong. Well he did it all so quickly he decided he would do the other stack of doors as well, except that kitchen was on butts.
I had a big contract for bookcases, needed 24 sheets of MDF cutting into 564 x 290mm shelves, all done highly efficiently until I measured the shelves and they were all cut at 546 x 290mm. He never double checked sizes every now and then. Half pack of MDF wasted.
My best advice would be if they don't "feel right" get rid of them asap.

Do you know if you were to get an official apprentice you get a grant, usually with you for 4 days a week and one day at college.

Over all taking on staff is progress and worthwhile but it becomes the number one reason for issues.

 

[mahomo59]

Thank guys, Dr Bob this is where my control issues come in! I used to delegate very well when in the mob. However it wasn't my time or materials if mistakes were to happen. Bottom line is I need help and I'd rather bring some one on than have an experienced person. Dangerous I know, but we've all had to start from somewhere. I shall keep you all posted. Very much appreciate your wisdom. Thank you

 

[LarryS.]

I get a lot of people working for me for short periods as part of a graduate entrant scheme. The key thing I've learnt - is ask them what they want to get out of it, and check they are getting it as they go. The more value they see in it then the harder they work and the more you get back

Good luck

 

[BearTricks]

How exactly do people go about finding apprenticeship/assistant work like this? It's something I'd like to look in to but I have no idea how to go about doing it through the right channels without being a bit nuisance.

I'm 25 and looking for a career change. I spent nearly 3 years in a job with no prospects because I was worried about being unemployed and moneyless. It took a toll on me but luckily I got out with a redundancy package and I don't want to end up in the same situation again so I'm after moving in to something where I'd be learning the skills I want to learn.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[Wildman]

as a university graduate she will be looking at grass roots hands on experience to prepare her for a career in management. I think I'd rather tutor a less ambitious person who wants to learn skills for the sake of it.

 

[Mr_P]

Indurance, insurance, insurance.

as a university graduate she will be looking at grass roots hands on experience to prepare her for a career in management. I think I'd rather tutor a less ambitious person who wants to learn skills for the sake of it.

I would have agreed with your statement 10-20 years ago but not today, sadly a degree these days only proves that someone spent 3 years plus at university.

 

[Jelly]

as a university graduate she will be looking at grass roots hands on experience to prepare her for a career in management. I think I'd rather tutor a less ambitious person who wants to learn skills for the sake of it.

And with that kind of attitude it's easy to see why UK business complains about the lack of people of the right calibre entering skilled trades... Show you're bright and it's assumed you'll think a job is too good for you.

I've thought long and hard about transferring into a trade from my current career, as per several threads two years ago, ultimately my age and level of education both worked against me. With my employment situation uncertain again, it may still happen, but it's hard work even getting someone to take you seriously enough to have the conversation.

 

[joiner_sim]

Don't forget even basic training such as manual handling needs to be completed.

 

[YorkshireMartin]

I think even considering this is a noble thing all told.

In addition to whats been said, if the apprentices total salary comes to more than £7,500 per year, they will need to be enrolled on a pension scheme which of course, you would need to contribute to and administer. Sadly, running a business these days is nothing but miles and miles of red tape, tied up in miles more. It's expensive. It makes it very hard for smaller companies to compete, and a one man band with a single apprentice even more so.

The reality is that you need to lay the groundwork as a business before you should consider taking on an employee, whether as an apprentice or workshop helper. For a lot of regulations, it doesn't even matter whether the person is paid or not. There is a lot to be aware of, some of which has been mentioned here.

Some other things to consider if you didn't already, in no particular order: insurances, PAT testing, your own qualifications to instruct on machinery, first aid certifications, business rates on your workshop, fire regulations, PPE, payroll, tax relief for taking an apprentice/potential subsidy, contracts of employment (to avoid default terms), production of written (and legal) policies for health and safety/environmental/staff manual. The list goes on.

It sounds daunting and it is. But, it can be done, just not quickly or cheaply.

I think the best thing to do would be to contact your local chamber of commerce and see if you can get some advice or pointers on where to go and what to do first. A few years ago I'd have suggested a meeting with a Business Link advisor, but they were all made redundant, replaced by an awful website.

Asking other small businesses is one way forward, but since many do not operate in full compliance with regulations, it can be rather unreliable and becomes a game of commercial russian roulette.

Nobody here is trying to put you off, of that I'm sure. Personally, I support these ventures whole heartedly, but you need to be certain of what you're letting yourself in for an what it entails just to employ someone, before going any further. It's your neck thats on the line, ultimately.

 

[MusicMan]

You cannot assume anything about anyone's motivations (".. as a university graduate, they .."). Ask what they want to learn and why. I had a student when I taught at university, who did a very good PhD in materials science. After a few years working in the field, she decided that what she wanted to do was pursue her hobby of pottery as a career, and is now a well-known professional potter, whose work was shown on The Great Pottery Throw Down two weeks ago as an example of the professional potter's art and skill. Also, another friend has just given up a lucrative but unsatisfying career as a dentist to work in house restoration and construction. The advantage of their training is that they will learn new skills quickly. They'll still need the practice, though.

I've been giving thought to training recently, as my 42-year old son and his partner have declared that they want to learn woodwork from me (subtext ... while there is still time, and then they'll know what to do with all the tools when I go to the Great Workshop ...!! He never showed any interest as a teenager., but now he is a householder it's motivating.). +! for safety as the first point, repeated often (and of course in a business context you need to comply with the legal stuff). They start tomorrow, with a workshop induction, where to find things, basic safety rules, how to hold tools. Then I'm going to do formal instruction. First, plane a piece of say 2x1 square all round. Learn about face side and face edge. Mark out a line square all round and saw to this line to get a square end. Finish by shooting. Then using this piece or others, learn how to lay out and cut a lap joint, bridle joint, mortise and tenon (dovetails later). All by hand. When they can do it by hand, introduce them to power tools, one at a time, with safety training and practice on each before going on to the next: power drill (pillar and handheld), sliding combination mitre saw, thicknesses, router (on table and freehand), finally table saw. After the basic joints they will apply the techniques on projects that they will keep for their house and garden. Of course assistants should do the dogsbody jobs too, it's traditional. But a great attitude is to teach them that "Clearing up is part of the job" from Day 1, by involving them in some way in the job as well as the cleanup.

It has also had the enormous benefit that it has obliged me to clear up the workshop, remove hazards, organise tools properly in a neat French Cleat system, get rid of redundant tools (to Tools With A Mission or ebay) and finally sharpen all the chisels and planes. Wow! I now have so much more space, I know where everything is and everything works!

I'm actually looking forward immensely to passing on my skills, such as they are, to the next generation.

Keith

 

[doctor Bob]

Some people have posted a fairly bleak picture of employing people, most of it is way over the top.
If you want to employ an apprentice, go to your local college, it's exceptionally easy.
Unfortunately some of the employment advice on here seems to be from the daily mail brigade.

 

[Adam9453]

Some people have posted a fairly bleak picture of employing people, most of it is way over the top.
If you want to employ an apprentice, go to your local college, it's exceptionally easy.
Unfortunately some of the employment advice on here seems to be from the daily mail brigade.

I agree with bob, it's much easier than some are making out. Also most of the health and safety stuff is essentially making sure you have a piece of paper which is signed to prove you have done anything critical I.e. Induction, health and safety training, fire related training, employment contract etc etc
Templates are available online for most of these things and you'll also probably find your business insurance company provide great support and backup, often with links to companies that can help with aspects you might not be comfortable with.
I wish more people took the time to pass on skills and knowledge because there are so many dying crafts or skills because those in the know are apprehensive about taking on an assistant/apprentice.
I'm 30 and currently run a manufacturing business but I would sincerely hope that someone would give me a chance to retrain if I wanted to, I would certainly hope they would not assume that I would think a job is beneath me just because of whatever level I'd risen to in previous company or career.