WoodRiver 5 1/2 Jack Plane Passaround

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No worries Matt, thanks for the kind words! I don't think you'll be unhappy with the WR. Price point considered it's good stuff and yes a "Charlesworthed" plane should be blooming splendid! I'll add my name to the Clifton list and it'll be nice to see how it fares.
 
18 minutes later...

Good round up Graham - not a waste at all. That was exactly the sort of thing I needed around a year ago when I bought my Clifton and exactly the sort of reasoning - ie something that works (almost) right out of the box. For the new user who doesn't know a Bailey from a Norris or what sharp is, they need that reassurance.

Great to see the comparison of the 3 too. I'm working toward getting to grips with wooden planes, as I love the reduced friction. I've a few old smoothers which aren't fettled yet and I'd like to get a wooden jack - just not sure what to look for - 99p sounds good though!
 
Hi Graham

Very nice presentation. Good attention to the important details of the plane.

Question: do you consider a #5 1/2 to be a smoother or a jack plane?

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
Hi Derek

Glad you liked it.

That's a tough one really. I almost look at it as a Panel Plane - Big Smoother - Edge Jointer - Shooter kinda thing for a furniture maker. It's Jack sized but for me it's not a "true" Jack for roughing due to the weight and general overkill for that task. So if that's the kind of thing a user wants then it could be good.

Cheers

G
 
Hi Graham

Very nice presentation. Good attention to the important details of the plane.

Question: do you consider a #5 1/2 to be a smoother or a jack plane?

Regards from Perth

Derek


Hi Derek

I always say it's a jack of all trades! A good mid sized plane that can smooth but also flatten boards and shoot edges.

The 5 1/2 is wide and heavy bit of kit which suits me but can be a little unwieldy for some.

Cheers Peter
 
Outside of David C, who routinely uses a #5 1/2?

I have one, which 20 years ago, was my largest plane. At the time it did function as a panel plane/jointer/jack as I mainly used power tools. As the migration to handtool preference progressed, the #5 1/2 was replaced by a succession of smoothers, as well as a jointer, and became a jack with a deeply curved blade. It certainly powered through hardwoods in this guise, but really was unsuited for the task as it was too wide a plane. This task subsequently was taken over by a wooden jack. A #5 is a better choice for a foreplane.

My #5 1/2 has lived at the rear of a cabinet for several years. I did use it earlier this year for planing down doors I was hanging at a rental house I own. Together with a block plane this makes a good minimum tool kit. It was like the old days again. :)

99% of the woodworking I do is in my workshop, and the great majority of this is building furniture. There is space for dedicated planes, and the years that have gone by have allowed me to accumulate a "few" :) . The #5 1/2 has long been discarded. Jack of all trades and master of none.

Your thoughts?

Regards from Perth

Derek
 
5 1/2 was my first plane and still first choice for almost everything. It's good to have a few tools well used rather than the other way round, as you get to know the tool and how to get the best out of it.
 
"Discarded"....oh woe !

If one was going to have one plane only, the 5 1/2 does a fantastic job.

I started my career with 4 1/2, 5 1/2 & 7, but this was 1970, the start of the decline of UK Stanley. The only one which worked at all was the 5 1/2, so I used it.

Reading Fine Woodworking introduced me to the idea of tuning up a plane and it became virtually perfect and a pleasure to use, specially with the addition of modern replacement blades such as Hock.

I have a workshop full of planes now but rarely use anything else.

Best wishes,
David.
 
mmmhhhhmmm... T10 steel, apparently popular with sword-makers.

From a forum entry:

I finally got my hand on a Chinese scientific article written in English which mentions the composition of T-10 tool steel. The article is "Micro Structure of Laser Processed T10 Carbon Tool Steel." by Xianzhang Bu of the Technology Department, Changchun Institute of Optics and Fine Mechanics.

The composition according to the article:

C = 1%
Si = .32%
Mn= .36
P = .031
S = .029
 
Blooming hec Charles not sure what all those numbers add up to but the iron is just fine. On another point, David and Jacob in near agreement! :D
 
Interestingly, that's almost exactly the same chemical analysis as CS95 spring steel (AISI/SAE 1095), the grade much beloved of the custom saw-makers.

Before anybody says, "Oh, goody, I can just buy a piece of hardened and tempered spring steel or suitable thickness and grind a plane iron out of it!" - no, you can't. Spring temper (at about 300 degrees centigrade) gives a hardness of about 50 - 52 Rockwell C; just right for saws, because it's fileable (just!) and if it bends it'll spring back to proper shape (unless you really kink it). Plane irons need to be harder, about 60 Rockwell C, which will come from a temper of about 200 centigrade.

What you could do is start with a billet of annealed CS95 steel, file it to shape (or forge it!), harden right out and quench in oil, then temper back at about 200C, and you'll have a virtual direct equivalent of the Chinese T10 steel plane-iron.

It has been said that the 'simpler' straight carbon steels - the ones with about 1.0% carbon but very little else by way of alloying elements - give the sharpest edges, compared to steels with more alloying elements. There may be some truth to that, though it's not the whole story. However, there are quite a few experienced craftsmen who swear that the older 'straight' cast steels give finer edges than the more modern alloys, and especially the fancier modern alloys. All I can say is that I have no proof of that, but my old I Sorby thin cast steel paring chisel takes the best edge I can get on any of my chisels, including post-WW1 vintage, modern Ashley Iles and 1980s Marples (none of which are any slouches on the edge front).

Consequently, I'm not surprised that T10 plane irons get the thumbs up from people who've used them a bit.
 
Jacob":7a7zj7r3 said:
5 1/2 was my first plane and still first choice for almost everything. It's good to have a few tools well used rather than the other way round, as you get to know the tool and how to get the best out of it.

When I get asked what one plane should I buy? My general answer is the 5 1/2.

My students tool kits all have a the WR 5 1/2 and a low Angle Block, I think this will cover a fair amount of general work. It's a good starting point then you can go up or down size wise as your work or the jobs in hand dictate.

This is the reason I put the 5 1/2 out for pass around rather than any others at this stage.

I been talking all day today with woodworkers at Harrogate and advising that for box making or small bench work the Jack's may be to big. The no 3 has been getting a lot more interest than I would normally expect, a slightly smaller plane than standard but a great one at that.

Cheers Peter
 
CStanford":38iwkut1 said:
mmmhhhhmmm... T10 steel, apparently popular with sword-makers.

From a forum entry:

I finally got my hand on a Chinese scientific article written in English which mentions the composition of T-10 tool steel. The article is "Micro Structure of Laser Processed T10 Carbon Tool Steel." by Xianzhang Bu of the Technology Department, Changchun Institute of Optics and Fine Mechanics.

The composition according to the article:

C = 1%
Si = .32%
Mn= .36
P = .031
S = .029

Charles I have know idea what you are talking about, but I do know it's a bloody good steel!

Cheers and thanks for your input Peter
 
I got the first three and had to check the others. It's been a while since I did the periodic table :).
 
At this link, for what it's worth, the hardening medium is air.

http://www.steel-grades.com/Steel-grade ... y/t10.html

Then at another source, this:

T10 Tool Steel

T10 is a Chinese designation for a water hardening high carbon tool steel with about 1% carbon content. The US designation of this steel is W1. The W series of tool steels are a very simple alloy group, low cost, and responsive to simple heating and water quenching for hardening. The alloy does undergo considerable distortion during quenching. This alloy is one of the common Water Hardening tool steel grades available. W1 is basically a simple high carbon steel and is easily hardened by heating and quenching in water, just as with plain carbon steel alloys.

Applications: W1 is commonly used for hand operated metal cutting tools, cold heading, embossing taps and reamers as well as cutlery.
Heat treatment is somewhat dependent upon section size, or intricacy of the part. For large sections, or intricate shapes, slowly preheat to 1100 F and then slowly increase temperature to 1500 F. Hold for 10 to 30 minutes and then quench in water or brine.
Forge at 1900 F down to 1550 F. Do not forge below 1500 F.
Anneal at 1400 F and slow cool in the furnace at 40 F per hour or less.
Temper at 350 to 650 F for Rockwell C of 64 to 50.
 
CStanford":32aiokvr said:
T10 is a Chinese designation for a water hardening high carbon tool steel with about 1% carbon content. The US designation of this steel is W1.

I'm not sure this is quite the place for an abstruse metallurgical argument, but in strict terms that's not quite correct. W1 has a lower silicon and manganese content. In practical terms, both W1 and T10 (and CS95) will behave in similar (but not absolutely identical) ways if quenched in water (or brine) on hardening, but the slight difference in alloying element content allows CS95/T10 to respond positively to oil quenching, which whilst it will give very slightly different results, can be an advantage for some applications (springs, for example).

(For all practical woodworking purposes, the resulting plane iron/chisel/saw will be perfectly fit for service whether made of appropriately heat-treated W1, T10, CS95 or many other alloys. There may be slight differences in performance, but all will work quite acceptably.)

Here's a quote from 'Engineering Metallurgy' Vol.1 by R.A.Higgins (fifth edition 1983, page 339)- "Silicon dissolves in ferrite thus increasing it's strength and hardness. Low alloy steels containing silicon as the principal addition are relatively inexpensive, but because silicon has a graphitising effect these steels also contain up to 1% manganese as a carbide stabiliser. Both elements combine in strenghening the ferrite and in increasing hardenability, so that silicon-manganese steels repond to oil quenching. Subsequent tempering provides a good combination of strength and impact toughness. These steels have been widely used for coil and leaf-type springs, as well as for a variety of tools such as punches and chisels where shock-resistance is necessary."

Having had to dabble in metallurgy for professional and amateur reasons, one thing that I've become aware of is the horrendous complexity of steel metallurgy. Very small changes in the percentage of an alloying element can make significant differences to the resulting steel, and there are about ten commonly used alloying elements in addition to carbon. One reference book we had in the drawing office listed 4000 grades of commercially-available steel, of which several hundred were 'tool steels'. The result is that there are many 'quite similar' grades that have differences just enough to suit them to particular applications, but which will answer perfectly acceptably in many others. Hence the variety of steels used over the years for making woodworking tools. There are quite a number of other grades that would make good woodworking tools, too.

Edit to add -

T10 - Carbon 0.95%
Manganese 0.36%
Silicon 0.32%
Phosphorus 0.031%
Sulphur 0.029%
The balance - Iron.

CS95/En44 - Carbon 0.95 - 1.05%
Manganese 0.3 -0.7%
Silicon 0.35% max.
Phosphorus and Sulphur 0.05% max each
The balance - Iron.

W1 - Carbon - 1.05%
Manganese - 0.25%
Silicon - 0.2%
(Phosphorus ans Sulphur - not specified, but will be limited as the above alloys.)
The balance - Iron.

Conclusion - T10 will make a very good plane iron. So will CS95/En44 and W1, given suitable heat treatment of each.
 
Cheshirechappie":2jmufse7 said:
.....

Conclusion - T10 will make a very good plane iron. So will CS95/En44 and W1,.....
I guessed that would be the case! :lol:
Is there any significant difference between all the common plane blade materials on offer? They all seem the same to me except for thickness.
Except laminated ones feel different sharpening i.e. slightly faster and you can feel the drag of the soft backing steel. I've got a jap "Smoothcut" and one or two Stanley or Record laminated
 
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