Wooden planes. Why?

[SlimShavings]

i'm a miller falls and boat anchor collector but when it gets right down to it i reach for my woodies. 30 year old ECE's I think I think I have forgotten :lol: :lol:

 

[Philipp]

I love the woodies for their simplicity: a piece of hardwood, a wedge, an iron. That's it. Things approach the perfect state when there is nothing left one can leave away. I have some metal planes one, too, and I also love them (The good ones. The bad ones I hate), but I don't find them easier or more comfortable to use at all with their screws and adjusters and frogs and so on.

To me it's like with instruments. A recorder is only a piece of wood with some holes in it. But the music a good player can get ouf of this "primitive" thing is wonderful, stirring and can leave one breathless. Almost impossible to believe that all this just comes out of a simple piece of wood.

Regards,
Philipp

 

[bugbear]

As a slight derail :roll: what method of flattening the sole of a 22" woody would those of you who do that sort of thing, advise to a newbie who has no machine planer, who's longest metal plane is a LN low angle jack, and who needs the plane flat to flatten his bench - i.e. he doesn't have a flat bench either!! ](*,)
Andrew

Clark & Williams recommend a reference surface approach;

http://www.planemaker.com/articles/benchplane.html

Tuning is simply carefully planing, scraping or lapping away these humps. Care should be taken to never remove more than necessary. High spots on the sole of light colored wood can be marked by running the plane over carbon paper on plate glass or a surface plate. A fresh newspaper can be used instead of carbon paper but the marked areas will be lighter. A light dusting of the glass with blue chalk can be used for planes of dark wood.

BugBear[/quote]

 

[George_N]

There is some info on how I trued the sole of my 22" jointer here. I used a combination of planing and abrasives in a float glass surface.

 

[Anonymous]

For a Fore plane, I find the woody 'glides' more smoothly across the material being planed and so less effort is required

 

[bugbear]

... I have 3 or 4 of those old marples "tecnical jack" razee planes I love then. They are set at different degrees of cut coarse medium and fine another with a scrub blade in.

That's definitely my cue;

http://www.geocities.com/plybench/scrub.html

BugBear (who's glad this isn't woodnet)

 

[Anonymous]

Why use wooden planes ?

Cause in the whole they work as well as steel ones.

There are little differences to point out, but thats all they really are. Little. Something to talk about at least. Ones bias is probably based on what we first practise using.

Generally though I like the heavier blades they have.
Their feel. Feel more comfortable to use. Steel is colder.
So many designs too, to cover purposes that have lost interest nowdays. Got a book recently (thankyou kindly Mike) on them, and I just haven't got my head out of it, its so interesting.

The times I prefer to not use them is when I want to take coarser shavings. When I want a plane with a greater weight. I find stanley #6 and #7's better to use than the equivelent woodies. Like to be able to pinch the body of the plane with my supporting hand low down like you can do with a stanley design.

Woodies wear faster I feel in general. But I should get over that.

But, I disagree that a woodies easier to setup and adjust during use. Shore, you can get quick using them, but not quicker than a well practised bloke with a steel equivelent. no.

The biggest downside with woodies for me, is that you can't withdraw the blade ever so slightly. You can't take the blade into a coarse cut and back to a fine one without having to knock out the wedge and start over. I mean, its not a big deal with bench planes, but with moulding planes I feel it can be a bit fiddly.

 

[Alf]

... I have 3 or 4 of those old marples "tecnical jack" razee planes I love then. They are set at different degrees of cut coarse medium and fine another with a scrub blade in.

That's definitely my cue;

http://www.geocities.com/plybench/scrub.html

BugBear (who's glad this isn't woodnet)

Not just yours... :wink:

http://cornishworkshop.blogspot.com/200 ... ytime.html

Cheers, Alf

Thinking we're doing pretty well for contentious subjects of our own :lol:

 

[MikeW]

... BugBear (who's glad this isn't woodnet)

...Thinking we're doing pretty well for contentious subjects of our own :lol:

Hah. Those aren't "real" scrubs <g>...

Yeah, but many/most of the contentions here are pretty mild. At least in comparison.

Take care, Mike
in from the cold...

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Bugbear
those are superb little photo's of the blade preparing sequence 8)
I actually got an unused marples technical jack with a closed handle, made in the 50's, off ebay, its probably the best of the group, but then the mouth hasn't got 50 + years of wear and tear! Its just about as good as the ECE smoother actually.

PS I also like that "orange county motorsickle" honing guide as well :wink: :lol: :lol:
cheers Jonathan

 

[Anonymous]

The biggest downside with woodies for me, is that you can't withdraw the blade ever so slightly. You can't take the blade into a coarse cut and back to a fine one without having to knock out the wedge and start over. I mean, its not a big deal with bench planes, but with moulding planes I feel it can be a bit fiddly.

You've got a point there Jake. Thats why I have several set up for varying cut's. However I find that if your cutting too strong, then several taps on the plane body's buttocks holding the plane up side down will let the blade drop back out a fraction. And you can make the blade cut level or one side stronger than the other (eg for coopering type job's) by tapping on the oposite corner so it sort of slews round at the desired angle rather than just sliding in squarely. But you already knew that :lol: Tap the wood wedge back in and it'll be all OK. Each plane has its quirkie tendencie's its just a case of listening to them, and not letting them talk back (chatter) just getting them to sing instead??? :lol: :lol:

 

[Wiley Horne]

Further to the point regarding fine blade adjustment..... After you get familiar with a wooden plane, you can make very fine and reasonably controlled withdrawals with hammer taps. Exactly how it's done depends on the length of the plane. Often, you will see longer planes with strike buttons placed between the throat escapement and the toe. The same method will work with smoothers also.

To retract a little while leaving the whole assembly intact, just tap forward of the blade, then tap the wedge....tap, tap....there's a rhythm to it. If you brought it back too far, then tap the blade, then the wedge...tap, tap. This is why an 8-10 oz. hammer with one poll of wood, one of brass, is so useful for woodie users. To bring the whole blade/wedge assembly out, strike harder--forward of the mouth for long planes, or at the rear for smoothers.

Wiley

 

[Anonymous]

You've got a point there Jake. Thats why I have several set up for varying cut's. However I find that if your cutting too strong, then several taps on the plane body's **** holding the plane up side down will let the blade drop back out a fraction. And you can make the blade cut level or one side stronger than the other (eg for coopering type job's) by tapping on the oposite corner so it sort of slews round at the desired angle rather than just sliding in squarely. But you already knew that :lol: Tap the wood wedge back in and it'll be all OK. Each plane has its quirkie tendencie's its just a case of listening to them, and not letting them talk back (chatter) just getting them to sing instead??? :lol: :lol:

:lol: Gota be a plane whisper eh ..... unfortuneatly, patience is important. They don't seem to respond well to .....' for christs sake, work ya turnip !' :lol:

yeh, I have tried trying to withdraw the blade with taps. My first attempt with it though was a mess. I hadn't taped the wedge in properly to begin with,,,,,flipped it,,,,tapped, and the whole lot fell to the floor !....(edge down on concrete !) wastn't too clever. Said a very naughty word.

I generally don't bother with it though, and just have a couple planes set like yourself. But I don't really use the bench woodies anymore anyway. I quite like my modified stanleys for that.

Spose I was refering to moulding planes more. Not really practical to have a couple of each with the same profile, so I can set one coarse and one fine. (Be nice though I suppose)

What bothers me mostly, is when I've got a lot of profiles to cut, and I don't have all day to do it. Ideally that often means, be best to start with a coarse cut to get to near depth as fast as possible then lighten it up to get the best finish. But if you've got like say 20 strips of them to do, your taking the plane in and out of a coarse cut all morning. And I'm just not skilled enough at present to be able to withdraw the blade fractionally just the right amount at the right time. (maybe I just need more practise :wink: )

I find it easier to try and make do with just one setting. On the coarse side and hope I can feather the cut light off the depth stop to clean up , near the end. I usually get good results that way. But if I do need to change the setting, I just pop the blade and wedge and start over.

My hat off to you guys if you can withdraw the blade slightly with taps. I'm not quite there yet. :lol:

*****
Thanks Wiley on your advice on withdrawing the blade. Makes sense to me. A must make a hammer like that for myself one day. I usually just use a small pin hammer.

Can you manage to withdraw the blade with moulding planes as well ?

 

[Wiley Horne]

Hi Jake,

With your craftmanship skill, the hammer would be excellent, and it really does make life with woodies better.

On the hammer adjust, I was referring just to bench planes. I haven't even tried it with molding planes, though I think some oldtimers must have tried, because I see a lot of molding planes with heavy hammer tracks on their behinds.

Wiley

 

[johnnyb]

i never had a bench mark for quality steel before i tried a wooden jack plane. record stanley irons are not good. what a revelation these things were thick with an outstanding crucible steel edge and and a perfect chipbreaker. doe anyone know how these irons were made?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Jake
I said a naughty word in my post and the computer blanked it out :lol: :lol:

I've had similar scenarois to what you described .
I had a close look at the blade/wedge/seating arrangements etc. and decided to adjust the wedge so it has contact over the whole surfaces where it touches the blade and the body. Maybe due to age/wear and tear/poor storage over the years, the wedge wasnt quitethe right angle for its slot. I just used a tiny block plane (the one my Dad gave me when I was about 10) to take <rizla shavings a little at a time. After I did this for quite some time, fettle/test fit, fettle/test fit, the wedge goes in evenly instead of skidding uncontrollably to one side or the other, and just a moderate tap seats it, no need to belt it in. Less chance of busting the 2 wing things on the body as well (what are they called??) that the wedge push'es against. Oh and I use a hard rubber mallet to adjust OUT :shock: and a small (12 ounce??)strap hammer to tap the blade and wedge IN; works fine either way. To be honest I dont know why tapping a bit lets the blade pop out a fraction, but it does any way 8) :lol:
cheers Jonathan

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Johnathon, they can be a bit fiddly eh. I've had to take the odd shaving from the wedge too to get it to fit before too, with mixed results.

The biggest gap problem, I reakon, that occurs in old planes due to the plane body moving about a bit, is when a gap appears between the blades bevel and the bed. (probably aware of it). Right at the mouth there.

Sometimes exists no matter how hard you've got that wedge in. And its a direct source of chatter. If you get rid of that gap the chatter often stops immediatly I've found

When I ever saw a gap in a plane at that point, I used to think the plane was doomed, cause of all the work required to flattern the bed and all that.

But, I've recently realised an easy solution for the smaller blades that come in moulding planes(took awile ) to get rid of that gap under the bevel. ....just bend the blade !

May be too hard with the wider bench plane blades.......but with the moulding plane blades, I've found you just clamp it up in the vise. And give it a rap with the hammer on one side, to intentionally hump the blade a touch, to bring the bevel down tight on the bed. Just uno,,,,, single hammer hit,,,,,check for the gap back in the body,,,, if still no good, back into the vise,,,,another hit,,,check again until that gaps gone....want that wedge to put all its pressure down onto the blades bevel.

Might be a bit too brutle for some though. But found it gives planes a second wind.

 

[bugbear]

I had a close look at the blade/wedge/seating arrangements etc. and decided to adjust the wedge so it has contact over the whole surfaces where it touches the blade and the body.

I've found that it only really matters in the bottom 1/2"; if the cutting end of the blade is secure, the rest doesn't matter much (within reason, of course).

The comment on the superiority of the "old" blade deserves expansion; the old blades do work well in the old planes, but you can't (or shouldn't) take the factors in isolation; the old blades are not only different steel, differently tempered, but they also thicker, and mounted in a different way in a body of a different material.

Each factor plays a part, and there may even be interaction (so the net effect is a combination, not an accumulation)

BugBear