Wood Suggestions Needed for Dark Library

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PokerG

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I am looking for a wood that is very dark brown, think Wenge but without being as endangered or difficult to work.

Any thoughts?

The only thing I could think of was dark stained walnut but as most of the time I don't know what I am talking about I thought I would ask you guys.

Gary
 
Oak thats been fumed? Should be nice and dark, and you can adjust the ammonia to suit the exact shade you are looking for.

Adam
 
Is there any danger of the ammonia coming out of the wood once fumed? The room is going to be -very- full of this stuff.

Also, does it leave a distinctive odor once fumed? SWMBO has a very sensitive nose and I don't want either of us needing a breathing mask to read or watch tv in there.

Gary

PS - Thanks for the suggestion Adam, hadn't even occured to me
 
PokerG":1kblayuh said:
Is there any danger of the ammonia coming out of the wood once fumed? The room is going to be -very- full of this stuff.

Also, does it leave a distinctive odor once fumed? SWMBO has a very sensitive nose and I don't want either of us needing a breathing mask to read or watch tv in there.
No the ammonia reacts with the timber to cause the darkening but isn't retained to any significant degree. Let the timber air through for a few days after fuming and before finishing. The finish will seal the timber. However ammonia is a dangerous compound and breathing apparatus (carbon filter mask at least), goggles and gloves are required when handling it. Unless you absolutly have to have it, I recommend you consider a dark stain instead, such as Van Dyk crystals.

Scrit
 
I must admit, the idea of assembling everthing in my conservatory, removing everything else, sealing it up and fuming in their does appeal to me. Like playing with a chemistry set.

Gary
 
chemistry's boring when you do it all day and you've got more qualification than you can shake a stick at


that's why I like using my hands etc ....house renovation DIY turning in to woodwork (house how sorted time to replace the coated chipboard furniture)

saying that chemistry does pay for the tools etc


Ian
 
PokerG":3mofrsk0 said:
I must admit, the idea of assembling everthing in my conservatory, removing everything else, sealing it up and fuming in their does appeal to me. Like playing with a chemistry set.

Gary

Just watch out if you house air bricks vent through the conservatory to the outside world!

Adam
 
Potassium permanganate will turn Walnut even darker than fuming.

Wenge veneered MR MDF is available which would cut down on the amount of actual timber used as well as saving a lot of time machining and glueing up.

Jason
 
Not prepared to use Wenge in any form due to its Endangered status in the FoE guide.

http://www.foe.co.uk/campaigns/biodiver ... o_z.html#W

It is currently close between American Black Walnut and Oak (fuming either) but I will investigate the Potassium permanganate method.

MDF is also not an option. Solid wood is pretty well the way forward for the whole room, expensive as it will be.

Thanks for the ideas.

Gary
 
Here are a few possiblities you might consider.

Walnut is wasteful. You need to allow anything up to 50%- 80% waste with this stuff depending on how you estimate your rough sawn stock needs-- lots of knots, sappy stuff and other faults to work around and generally only available in narrower widths. It does fume to an attractive colour, but why bother when you can do a safer, more controllable job with dyes and stains?

Chestnut, which is brown anyway could be followed up with a suitable oil based or light fast spirit based dye, and perhaps additional pigment staining to emphasise the open pores. It's easier to work than white (european) oak, but availability might be a problem. You'd need to check with your supplier.

You could use European oak or imported American white oak and dye and/or pigment stain this too. This is safer than fuming, but if you insist on fuming then you could rent an enclosed trailer and shove all your parts and your .880 ammonia in this for a day or two whilst the fuming occurs. This saves building a fuming chamber, and once the doors are open the residual ammonia fumes leave within half an hour or so. Exposed liquid ammonia very quickly becomes gaseous at room temperatures.

Fuming incidentally is difficult to control regards final colour and colour matching from plank to plank-- this is true of all chemical reaction type colouring of wood.

A third easy option if you want a fine pored or close grained look is to use poplar-- often sold as tulipwood here in the UK. It's fairly soft, easy to work, very little waste-- only about 10%, off white in colour with some green/red mineral staining. The mineral staining turns brown rapidly-- within a year usually. It dyes easily enough and if you go for the dark dye and tinted polish look you can near enough obliterate the original wood colour.

I think of poplar as mostly a secondary wood for hidden constructional parts or as a paint grade primary wood. It's not particularly attractive polished clear in my experience, hence heavy dying and tinted polish to pretty much obliterate the original characteristics.

You could use european beech too, either white or steamed, and this would probably give a more attractive end result. This stuff too is not very wasteful and it's cheap. It's harder to work than poplar, heavier and stiffer, so you'd need more time to make your library than you'd need with poplar. Beech is the classic european wood that has been used to mimic just about every exotic or expensive wood for centuries, so you should be able to get the colour you want easily enough with dye and polish. Slainte.
 
Hello gary,
Am i right in thinkin the use for this timber would be for the library you described in another post? If so most librarys made for this style were made in mahogany or possably teak. Sapele would give a darker finish than mahogany for about half the cost. Also as the trees tend to be so large you tend to get more of a quater sawn effect on most boards so would reduce and cupping or wierd movement when joining large shelves and end panels etc. It also takes a stain very well so you could make it even darker.
 
Gary,
I reckon there will be enough flat work or easy curves to make vacuum veneering an attractive option for using fancy woods and you would recoup the cost of a vacuum veneer press in no time compared with buying timber.

For panels, I would use MDF as a substrate- the rest really depends on your chosen design.
 
To answer some of your questions and give feedback to your suggestions:

It is for the library in the previous post, the room as it stands has a padouk floor and wenge border (most of the border will get covered by the library units). I wanted something that compliments the border colour without using wenge as I have found out how endangered the wood is since having it fitted to the room.

The price is not the major concern, I am happy to spend whatever it takes to get the room done. So I will probably go overboard on using solid wood where most would be using ply or MDF.

MDF is definately not an option, the formaldehyde used in its construction is very nasty stuff, and SWMBO has put her foot down on this front.

The colour is the big issue for me, and as I have no experience in trying to make something very dark and still look like a nice wood I need advice. Maybe I should just pick a wood like beech and go with a heavy dark dye as Sgian mentioned.

Once the scheapach extravaganza in the shed is set up and my workbench is built then maybe I can start a WIP so you can all advise me as I go along.

Gary
 
PokerG":1238t2ou said:
MDF is definately not an option, the formaldehyde used in its construction is very nasty stuff, and SWMBO has put her foot down on this front.
"MDF = the new asbestos" is an attention grabbing headline but it is significant that the claim has not been made by anyone with credentials in the field of occupational health. Zero-added formaldehyde MDF is available from many companies and effectively answers that particular question, but what about the other things in your home which outgas formaldehyde? For example what type of glues do you use? If you use PU glues, including the hot-melt stuff used for edgebanding kitchens, then there is extra formaldehyde in your environment already. Were I you I'd be as concerned about using amonia to fume (should you got that route) or the effects of VOCs in the finishing compound (or for that matter chipboard anywhere in the house - chipboard outgasses much more than MDF and generally used to have higher levels of formaldehyde).

Just wondered about where this "nasty stuff" idea originated?

Scrit
 
i think its down to these TV make over programmes. Even if you slightly mention MDF to a customer they roll their eyes and imagine the rubbish they have seen it used for. What they don't know is that MDF is a fantastic product and the benefits of using it for veneered work instead of solid wood are massive. If done properly not only will you never know its not solid but the benefits of no movement. As for the dust, I think im right in saying that most timber dust is just as hazardous to health as MDF dust, especially when sanding, and as scrit said most MDF manufacturers are using much less formaldehyde.

As for your timber choice Gary, for me beech is a big no no for any kind of furniture as it moves more than any timber i have ever used, not just normal shrinking and expanding but it twists and cups very badly. As for wenge, if you buy it from a merchant who can guarantee its from sustainable sources then im sure that wouldn't be a problem, likewise for Macassar ebony, African Blackwood or an even nicer japanese ebony or Kaki as cost is not a problem, probably well over £500 a cube. most are only sold in veneers but im sure you can source solid timber.
 
How about Idigbo? Straw to pink in colour and looks something like Sapele, but with a lot less wild grain and stains really well. Very reasonable cost (been quoted £21 + VAT / cubic foot today on 1in and 2in, boards up to 20in wide). Apparently easier to work than Iroko, too, although Iroko tends to darken and "mature" all on its own to a beautiful dark red/brown colour.

Scrit
 
Ignoring the MDF argument for now as I think that is a big enough topic for another thread.

Can someone point me to a certified supplier of any of the exotic woods you mentioned orangetlh? Not just someone saying how he checks the CoC himself and its all above board like timberline seem to do.

I have seen Verified Progress Iroko from Timbmet which is a possibility.

Gary
 
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