Wood burner fan

[DennisCA]

Bringing heat down with fans is done and it's incredible the amount of heat that is wasted with high ceilings otherwise, almost criminal. In work environments with really high ceilings the difference is even starker. Can also be used as a way to save heat, if you need to open the doors turn off the fans and let it rise, then turn them back on when the doors close.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I don't know what air bricks are, but burning softwoods is not a problem in an efficient stove that has secondary combustion of flue gasses. Still from my perspective, most normal stoves are inefficient and waste a lot of heat through the chimney or because they radiate most of it at once instead of accumulating it so you get large temperature swings. Though the secondary combustion at least mitigates the pollution issue.

The most efficient traditional wood burning designs in the world right now are modern masonry ovens of scandinavian design with passages for the smoke to pass through so the heat from the flue gasses can be mostly extracted before entering the chimney. They can be up to 90% efficient in retaining the heat, they often weigh several tonnes so they can retain the heat and you only need to fire them once or twice a day.

After that we have reverse wood gasification boilers which are probably the most advanced wood burning technology out there and can go over 90% efficiency. Of course with those you don't use mass to retain the heat but water, so it requires a pretty advanced setup and you need 3-6 cubic meters of water ideally or you can't take advantage of it. But with that kind of setup you can keep a whole house and even a separate workshop heated through cold northern winter in Sweden or Finland and you only need to fire them every other or 3rd day.

We have a masonry heater with secondary air for total combustion and burn mostly softwood and the chimney sweep comes every 4-5 years because more often is pointless. When the fire gets going and you go out and look at the chimney you only see a heat haze.

Sorry - meant fire not air bricks!

I was intrigued to watch this video:

 

[Woody2Shoes]

.....
Re fans - this is a chapel conversion and part of it is full height about 24ft. Very well insulated roof, so wondered about bringing hot air back down with a fan and ducting. I wondered if anybody has done this.
I envisaged simply a 24' long box like a wooden organ pipe perhaps 10" square, open at the top near the ceiling, open at the bottom facing out with a fan in the opening.

You might find it easier to push cooler air upwards - so it mixes with the warmer air and comes back down again (on the basis that what goes up must come down) - in effect, to encourage a vertical circulation and mixing of the air "strata" i.e. de-stratification.

I think the most common solution is "push down" e.g. A Guide To Destratification Heating and Benefits - Powrmatic
but I don't see why "push up" wouldn't work (as long as the room's not too draughty) and the benefit would be less visual clutter above your head.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

You might find it easier to push cooler air upwards - so it mixes with the warmer air and comes back down again (on the basis that what goes up must come down) - in effect, to encourage a vertical circulation and mixing of the air "strata" i.e. de-stratification.

I think the most common solution is "push down" e.g. A Guide To Destratification Heating and Benefits - Powrmatic
but I don't see why "push up" wouldn't work (as long as the room's not too draughty) and the benefit would be less visual clutter above your head.

PS stratification is one of the reasons why under-floor heating is so popular - besides the cosy feeling of warm feet, the warmth comes up from below.

 

[doctor Bob]

My burner is 8kw rated, I have a little fan. It looks pretty not sure what it does. We get to hot and end up opening all doors.
I go for a good burn and then put a massive log on and that does the evening

 

[Jelly]

Anthracite normally reserved for the Rayburn, which is multifuel, but keeping that fed with wood instead would leave me with no time for much else!

How do you find the Rayburn?

I've been offered one which needs an overhaul FOC if I can move it, and am tempted to take it on as a project as it would fit in with my (eventual) plans to replace the godawful fitted kitchen with a freestanding kitchen setup.

But whilst I've done a fair bit of research into the plumbing setup needed to use the back boiler (conclusion, I would likely remove and sell it because of the complexity of merging with my existing DHW CH system) I don't really know a great deal about the practicalities of living with one.

 

[Jacob]

How do you find the Rayburn?

I've been offered one which needs an overhaul FOC if I can move it, and am tempted to take it on as a project as it would fit in with my (eventual) plans to replace the godawful fitted kitchen with a freestanding kitchen setup.

But whilst I've done a fair bit of research into the plumbing setup needed to use the back boiler (conclusion, I would likely remove and sell it because of the complexity of merging with my existing DHW CH system) I don't really know a great deal about the practicalities of living with one.

They were a great improvement on the open fire range but superseded by gas or electric appliances about 100 years ago
I've had two. They are a disaster in terms of cooking unless you keep them lit permanently and spend a fortune on fuel. Even then you still need another cooker for when the Rayburn isn't up to temp, if you've been using it for a bit of cooking for instance.
They keep the kitchen nice and warm, whether or not you want it too.
There's just the odd cold wintry day when the seem like a good idea, especially if you've just come in from sledging, or fishing through a hole in an ice covered lake.

 

[Ollie78]

Our £25 amazon fan makes a big difference. Before one room was super toasty but the kitchen was cold, now the entire downstairs gets warmed.
It just creates enough convection to make the air circulate.

 

[Droogs]

My ex's family home (a farmhouse) had a Raeburn multi fuel rather than the more common Aga. it had the back boiler and was hooked up to an underfloor heating system and was great for most of the time. The kitchen was always hot and the kettle always on. Was great for when the power went off (often in winter). It was a pig to empty and clean but great to cook with if you had it running all the time, especially for baking and casseroles. Still needed a normal cooker for in the summer as the raeburn would be too hot to have on. i dream of having one but only in the right type of house and only if it was built with the cooker range in mind

 

[Jacob]

..... Was great for when the power went off (often in winter). ....

Which happens for about 10 minutes or so per year. If it really was a prob then a calor gas cooker would be better. In fact would be better even if power cuts weren't a problem!

 

[Droogs]

@Jacob their power would go off a couple of times a year, especially with weather like now or when a bad storm damaged the power cable and often for 4 or 5 days at a time not 10 minutes. Hence the reason they went to the expense of having the range with a back boiler hooked up to underfloor heating pipes. They also had an ex RAF 40KVA generator to give power for the farm machinery and lighting etc when it was off. This was only 20 years ago. Yes they are in a remoter part of the country but not that remote.

 

[DennisCA]

Sorry - meant fire not air bricks!

I was intrigued to watch this video:

Yeah that's a lot like a traditional masonry heater, only thing with those is they don't have any secondary air, all the air for combustion comes from below and passes through the fire, this lowers the efficiency of the combustion and so they don't get as much heat out of the wood, but thanks to the many channels the smoke passes through it's still quite effective.

edit:
The change to add secondary air is really astonishingly simple, this is my masonry heater, it has a slot infront of the firebox that draws fresh air, which passes infront of the fire and mixes with the flue gasses above the fire.

 

[stevek]

You might find it easier to push cooler air upwards - so it mixes with the warmer air and comes back down again (on the basis that what goes up must come down) - in effect, to encourage a vertical circulation and mixing of the air "strata" i.e. de-stratification.

I think the most common solution is "push down" e.g. A Guide To Destratification Heating and Benefits - Powrmatic
but I don't see why "push up" wouldn't work (as long as the room's not too draughty) and the benefit would be less visual clutter above your head.

If he does decide to give a fan a go its worth bearing in mind that even the cheap B&Q ones had the reversing switches, so whatever direction is recommended you can just switch from one to the other,,a few years ago I was really surprised how cheap some of the fans were and to my mind the cheapo basic models had a nice vintage look to them,,but they do gold and basket weave for those that like a bit of bling! Perhaps a summer line for the likes of B&Q though.
On a slightly different note I tweaked the blades on my workzone fan this morning, gave the blades a twist to increase the overall pitch and this resulted in there now being a waft of air enough to make a single strip of tissue flutter, before there was no decernable air movement, and the effect on the tissue paper from a similer distance was the same as me blowing very lightly on it,,
Steve.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

How do you find the Rayburn?

I've been offered one which needs an overhaul FOC if I can move it, and am tempted to take it on as a project as it would fit in with my (eventual) plans to replace the godawful fitted kitchen with a freestanding kitchen setup.

But whilst I've done a fair bit of research into the plumbing setup needed to use the back boiler (conclusion, I would likely remove and sell it because of the complexity of merging with my existing DHW CH system) I don't really know a great deal about the practicalities of living with one.

You can run a rayburn with the water tank in but disconnected - but I wouldn't recommend using the tank thereafter. We use ours as a space heater and a backup cooker and water heater. We're off mains gas and our leccy used to be unreliable but lots better since it was undergrounded a couple of years ago. It has a huge thermal inertia so you need to plan ahead. It wouldn't really suit people who were out all day every day. It would use about two wheelbarrowfuls of wood per day - fed at regular intervals - or one hod of coal fed twice. It gives a nice dry warmth and we like it but wouldn't want to rely on it as our primary stove/heating! I do like having a choice between wood/coal/oil/electric too - just in case some unexpected crisis forces us to burn the furniture to keep warm!

 

[Jelly]

Thanks for the input and info on Rayburns everyone, most helpful!

You can run a rayburn with the water tank in but disconnected - but I wouldn't recommend using the tank thereafter.

I've got a mind to remove it if I do go ahead and get the one offered as I can see how I would use it to deliver underfloor heating using a proportional control valve to split between the floor loops and a heat dump radiator, but would need to work through in some detail to justify the setup to Building Control, so better as an add-on project.

But if I can't (or don't want to) persue that, if the boiler has been preserved I can always sell it on to recoup some of my costs.

It has a huge thermal inertia so you need to plan ahead. It wouldn't really suit people who were out all day every day. It would use about two wheelbarrowfuls of wood per day - fed at regular intervals - or one hod of coal fed twice. It gives a nice dry warmth and we like it but wouldn't want to rely on it as our primary stove/heating!

That sounds like it's actually a good fit, the house itself is stone with substantial thermal inertia of it's own which generally drags things in the opposite direction to the one I would want during winter and the central heating is completely unable to heat the kitchen (mainly down to poor system design) and my office which sits above it.

I work from home, so being in isn't an issue either, although based on the fuel consumption I guess I would need to go down the solid fuel route.

I definitely wouldn't be switching to only a Rayburn for cooking, after growing up in a house where the DHW was from a back boiler I know how grim being forced to burn a fire when it's warm is.

it had the back boiler and was hooked up to an underfloor heating system.

I don't suppose you know any more about how that was set up do you?

It seems like it's a bit awkward to run underfloor heating on solid fuel (at least under the current building regs) and there's no obvious commercial solutions out there.

They were a great improvement on the open fire range but superseded by gas or electric appliances about 100 years ago

This gave me a good giggle, you're not wrong mind.

I've had two. They are a disaster in terms of cooking unless you keep them lit permanently and spend a fortune on fuel.
...
They keep the kitchen nice and warm, whether or not you want it too.

I can see the fuel efficiency/cost issue clear as day... But given I currently spend quite a lot on electricity trying to keep my office above the kitchen even vaugely habitable from November to April, and it's effectively wasted money if I even try to heat the kitchen with the central heating at all, I'm not so terribly concerned as I otherwise might be.

There's a reasonable argument that I'd be better replacing the boiler with a bigger one, and installing additional radiators... But it's only a 3 year old system, and it's a choice between Free (ish) and spending a whole lot of cash, so the numbers stack up in favour of the Rayburn short term.

 

[Sandyn]

I had a 4 oven Esse Fairy cooker which was in the kitchen. It was installed in the 50's I kept it alive until about 15 years ago when We refurbished the kitchen. It just got beyond economical repair. Fire bricks broken, grate burnt, just end of life unfortunately. We did get 25 years good use from it. It used about 50Kg of anthracite singles a week I kept my welding rods in the cool oven. It kept the kitchen warm 24/7. Coming home in cold weather, getting up in the middle of the night, or in the morning, the kitchen was always warm. Really miss it. I still have it out the back of the house. It must be well over 200 Kg. I don't have the heart to dump it.

 

[Jelly]

I had a 4 oven Esse Fairy cooker which was in the kitchen. It was installed in the 50's I kept it alive until about 15 years ago when We refurbished the kitchen. It just got beyond economical repair. Fire bricks broken, grate burnt, just end of life unfortunately. We did get 25 years good use from it. It used about 50Kg of anthracite singles a week I kept my welding rods in the cool oven. It kept the kitchen warm 24/7. Coming home in cold weather, getting up in the middle of the night, or in the morning, the kitchen was always warm. Really miss it. I still have it out the back of the house. It must be well over 200 Kg. I don't have the heart to dump it.

View attachment 103508

That's a lovely looking stove so it is, I can see how you'd feel an attachment to it.

From your description I have to admit my first reaction was "I've seen locomotive fireboxes get turned round from worse", although I have to grant that the money involved in making that happen is not insubstantial and a fully restored steam loco is rather more of an investment than a solid fuel range.

 

[Sandyn]

That's a lovely looking stove so it is, I can see how you'd feel an attachment to it.

That's not my one, just a library picture of it. I wish my one looked as good. I have pictures of my one somewhere. It is virtually identical. My stove is out the back of the house covered with a tarpaulin. It really was done!. The hotplate was a massive chunk of cast iron hanging into the fire pit. It had burnt away. I had refurbished it two times before, but the top outer casting was cracked and generally corrosion was a real problem. I think it could still be restored, because it was so well made. I believe all the inner castings are still in one piece, but sitting outside for 5 years won't have helped things. I feel guilty for chucking it out. Things like that need to be kept for the future. It had real character, but a habit of trying to fry my head. It was hopper fed, so at night I lifted the little hopper cover and had a look inside to see if it needed coal. Often I had riddled it a short time before and the fresh anthracite reaching the burning face would give off gas which would build up in the hopper. As soon as you opened the hopper lid, air would get in and the gas would ignite, sending a 2 ft ball of flame out of the hopper, the timing was absolutely perfect. I would normally just be looking inside as the flame ignited. I could see the flame coming, it would engulf my head and singe every bit of hair so I instantly looked as if I was about 90 with white hair. It amused the whole family. The flame never lasted long enough to do real damage. It only happened occasionally, so I never learnt to wait before looking inside. The children and all their friends still talk about it.