WIP cutting board (finished)

[Chris_belgium]

My attempt at making a cutting board withouth a planer/thicknesser.

( For those like myself with a very short attention span, scroll down to the end, I got a question that needs to be answered)

Wanted to make a cutting board out of purpleheart and maple, but had some problems finding it locally, so I settled for Padouk and Zebrano. I was able to get the padouk planed nearly to the correct size, but the Zebrano was just rough sawn.

As stated I do not own a planer/thicknesser or a decent table saw, funds are tight at the moment, so i have to make due (spelling??) with these two prehistoric monsters :

First thing I did was try and get a straight edge on the piece of Zebrano, I wrecked my circular saw last month, so the jigsaw was all I had left.

Offcourse that did not go to well due to the blade flexing

So I passed it through the router table setup for 'planing' a couple of times, wich gave me a good straight edge.

Next problem was that the wood was 'wobbly' so messed around with a hand plane a bit until I got base of the piece of zebrano flat, so it sits stable on the table saw. Cutting on the table saw went very well for the padouk, and a bit more difficult for the zebrano, if this was due to the wood itself or maybe the facte that the zebrano was thicker, I don't know.

After I cut all my pieces, I passed them through the router to get all four side nice and flat, then I changed the setup for teh router table to the much discussed 'thicknesser' setup (see: https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27921 ) and thicknessed all the pieces to the correct size.

Small clip of the 'thicknessing', all in all after all the scary comments, it went very smooth and felt perfectly safe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttetvreNbnE
This setup on the router table performed very well, but not perfect there were some imperfections in the wood, but these are very very shallow and will easily be sanded out.

Cutting the pieces to length, my 'made in 5 minutes' router cutter cover doubling as a stop block.

After glue up:

And now for the question, the 'planing and thicknessing' with the router table went very well and is nearly perfect except for one joint were there is a small gap. Now I have seen a podcast on the whoodwhispere where he fills an imperfection in a piece of wood with epoxy, is this normal epoxy as the one you would use with fiberglass/car body repair kit, or is this some kind of special epoxy?

 

[shim20]

the west systems epoxy you can get mircofibers to thicken it up, but ideally you want to get the joints bang on, do you own a no5 or no7 plane?

 

[wizer]

Sorry Chris, I am not keen on your choice of woods. The combination does not look right. Zebrano is far too nice to be used as a cutting board, you will loose all of the lovely grain pattern when you turn them on their side.

 

[TheTiddles]

Whilst I appreciate you haven't got nearly the number of tools that some us have, that planing technique is likely to cause problems sooner or later. You're unlikely to hurt yourself with small pieces and enough care, but wrecking a workpiece and harpooning the cat could happen. If you haven't got the cash for a second hand plane, how come you're making a chopping board out of zebrano and padouk?

Aidan

 

[Ironballs]

I got an old ish Stanley/Bailey No 6 off ebay earlier in the year for a little over a tenner. It's no Veritas etc but set up right it planes perfectly well, try and get yourself something like that as it costs less than a decent router cutter and does the job better and more safely.

Last point, aesthetics only, those woods (as others have said) don't go together. If you like zebrano then how about a board that is edged in zebrano with timbers that are a good match for the board itself.

Not intending to gloat or anything (not skilled enough for that), but I knocked up a small chopping board from ash offcuts recently (it's in the projects section somewhere). Reason for telling you is that you can see what effects are possible from end grain on a cheap and very hard wood (so good for cutting on) and also to say that final levelling was done with a plane and random orbital sander. Have a practice with some cheap wood and hand tools and see where you get, good luck and keep posting the projects up

 

[Chris_belgium]

Thanks for the tips and criticism,

I have got a what I believe is number 4 cheap stanley plane, but haven't got the skills to work with it, contrary to what is usually the case here, I prefer power tools over hand tools

For the choice of woods, I have to agree they don't go well together, but just bougt some wood wich I could source easily locally. It's only my third project so it's more a test piece to see how well the 'planer/thicknesser' setup on the router table works than anything else.
I hope that the endgrain combined with the food safe finish will 'Dull' the contrast a bit.

As for me killing myself on the router table, the piece is fed in from the 'wrong' side of the table, but is fed in between the cutter and the fence, so the orientation of the cut is correct in relation to the cutter rotation. Only once the cutter 'bit' into the wood, but the reason here was a skew piece of wood and due to my own fault it lost contact with the fence and hit the cutter. Other than that not problems.

So about the epoxy, car body filler epoxy won't do then?

 

[MikeG.]

Chris,

yes, that car-filler epoxy is fine as a wood filler.........but will stand out as very pale against the wood colour.

I suggest that if the gap is small enough, say less than 2 or 3mm, that you mix up some of the correct species of sawdust with PVA glue and rub that into the joint..........then sand off when dry.

Incidentally,

make due (spelling??)

is "make do".

My only proper plane is an old unbranded No 4 or 4-1/2...............and don't let anyone tell you you need any more than that. I've been making furniture for 30 years from sawn stock with no more than this..........and I didn't even fettle it until last year. Get it really sharp, then plane, plane, and plane some more..................you will hash up a few pieces, but your skills will come on really quickly. Planing isn't actually that difficult.

If this is only your 2nd or 3rd project, it really is very early for using such woods as these..........I think you will learn more skills more quickly, and save yourself a fortune in the process, if you start with pine, then move on to ash, sycamore and beech. I suggest that you use the thicknesser set-up on the router table as an occasional last resort. It is inherantly dangerous due to the exposed cutter out in the middle of nowhere on the table................and of course, it is useless unless you have already got one straight edge and one flat face on the work already. If your planing skills are good enough to do those two, then you may as well just carry on and plane the other 2 sides!!

Good on you for trying though!!!

Mike

 

[moz]

Hi Chris,

In your previous thread you asked for opinions regarding trapping work between cutter and fence and were, quite rightly, told in no uncertain terms by several members why this is a bad idea.

Obviously you chose to ignore all advice to the contrary, ended up with a less than perfect result and have come back to ask the same people for advice on how to fix it. Since you admit to having little experience of the forces involved when table routing in either a conventional or uncoventional sense, you should count yourself lucky that you got off so lightly.

1. As previously mentioned, it is much more difficult to adequately guard a cutter so far from the fence.

2. 'Kickback' is always a serious danger to be expected and an attempt made to mitigate the consequences just in case it does happen. Just because you are feeding work in the correct direction doesn't mean it won't happen. Things go wrong for all sorts of reasons! By trapping work between cutter and fence, the result of kickback would be much more dangerous and unpredictable.

3. As you have found, any movement away from the fence results in the cutter burying itself deeper into the work. By routing conventionally (i.e. with the depth of cut set by the infeed side of the fence and the outfeed adjusted or shimmed to take up the difference), moving away from the fence would result in a shallow cut which could be cleaned up with another pass.

3. You prefer power tools to hand tools. Personally, I prefer the right tools to the wrong tools. I have every machine and power tool at my disposal but, if I want the very best joint of this type, there is no alternative to getting out the handplane. My machine planer is very well set up and, for most classes of work, I can glue up joints straight from the machine. However, if you consider the action of a machine planer, the surface will always be minutely scalloped. That is with an 88mm cutting radius, in my case. Imagine the effect with a 12mm router cutter. Moreover, I make the decision to glue up machined joints because I am aiming to save time. This point seems to be lost if you start faffing around with some Heath Robinson effort which is clearly going to take longer than a few wipes with a handplane - and you have to add on the time spent trying to repair mistakes like the one already suffered.

I don't pretend to know everything about woodworking but I like to think I have the humility to listen to and act upon good advice from those more experienced than me and I think that would be a good quality to develop if you intend to continue to ask for advice on an internet forum.

I'm sorry if this comes across as a rant but I would not wish anyone coming across this thread to be left in any doubt that this solution to the problem of obtaining a straight edge on a piece of wood is one borne out of ignorance and is a very, very stupid thing to do.

John

 

[dennis]

I must say that if Chris did not have a cutter protector, featherboards or a push block I would agree that this is a stupid thing to do, but as he uses all these I cannot see any real safety issues providing as with all power tools care is taken. It is a solution to thicknessing with limited resources.
Regarding the ripple effect of planing, surely you get a smoother finish with a small diameter cutter at high revolutions and slower feed rate than a larger diameter cutter at lower revolutions and faster feed rate.

Dennis

 

[moz]

"Regarding the ripple effect of planing, surely you get a smoother finish with a small diameter cutter at high revolutions and slower feed rate than a larger diameter cutter at lower revolutions and faster feed rate."

Surely?

Draw an 88mm circle then draw a 12mm circle - taking a section of each of equal depth, which is closer to being flat, i.e. "smoother"? This problem of geometry also results in a sharper exit angle of the router cutter which only encourages tearout in unco-operative grain.

Lower revolutions? It's the periphery speed which counts - no contest there either.

Limited resources is hardly the point since others have pointed out that a good handplane can be obtained for a few quid; probably less than the replacement cost of the cutter which will eventually and inevitably break. It will also, in sharp condition, produce the very best gluing surface bar none. I'm afraid it's the just the familiar scenario of the novice showing more faith in some gizmo, any gizmo however mad, rather than his/her own ability to learn some straightforward skills. Eventually the penny drops one hopes.

If you still think you're right and I'm wrong, go ahead, don't let me stop you. I've done my best.

 

[Chris_belgium]

I'm afraid it's the just the familiar scenario of the novice showing more faith in some gizmo, any gizmo however mad, rather than his/her own ability to learn some straightforward skills. Eventually the penny drops one hopes.

Point taken, I am 100% guilty here.

In your previous thread you asked for opinions regarding trapping work between cutter and fence and were, quite rightly, told in no uncertain terms by several members why this is a bad idea.

In that same thread there were also several people who out of personal experience mentioned that it could be done when taking several safety measures, so I followed their advice. The setup will surely not achieve the same finish as a planer (thanks for the explanation on the cutter diameter in relation to a better planing finish), but IMHO it is as safe as using the router table in the normal setup.

So after reading your post, can I conclude that I need a 100 mm cutter in my router and then my router table 'planing & thickessing' setup will work flawlessly?? :twisted: :twisted:

If you still think you're right and I'm wrong, go ahead, don't let me stop you. I've done my best.

And thank you for that again IMHO I feel te setup as being as safe as normal routing on the table. But the results achieved with this are far from perfect. So I will leave this idea in the 'tried, tested and failed' section of my mind.

 

[dennis]

Moz,

I would say that there is a contest between peripheral speed and rpm when taking feed rate into account. Granted at the same rpm a larger diameter cutter will have a faster peripheral speed than a smaller cutter and at the same feed rate will give a smoother finish due to the flatter arc. But I think that a small diameter cutter running at much higher rpm and slower feed rate, therefore hitting the wood more times per inch than a larger diameter cutter at faster feed rates,would give a smoother finish.Like comparing a dovetail saw blade with a rip saw blade,which is smoother?

I would be interested to know why you say that it is inevitable that the cutter will break in this application, as the cutter protector minimises the depth of cut. If it is a half inch collet router there is also much less chance of the cutter breaking.

Dennis

 

[moz]

I'm sorry Dennis but I don't understand your point. You seem to be making a comparison between slow feed speed on the router versus fast feed speed on the planer. Why not a slow feed speed on the planer to truly compare like with like. Also, too slow a feed speed will burn a router cutter and the work far easier than with a planer . But the exit angle is probably the more serious issue. Even a small rebate cut with a spindle moulder is invariably cleaner than the same done with a router cutter, partly because of the higher peripheral speed but also partly because of the gentler arc.

The cutter will break because you will eventually run out of luck. On this very forum I am sure you will find much advice on using a table saw, which is exactly the same principle, and that, particularly when cutting solid wood, the fence should not extend more than about an inch beyond the cutting edge of the blade; you never trap wood between fence and blade. Why do you think this is any different? In fact it could be worse in many circumstances. Sure, it will not be lifted by the back end of a saw blade but a router cutter is cutting all the way around. The point is that it is neither safe nor efficient and I am glad that Chris will probably turn to less creative and safer options next time around.

Echoing others' comments about choice of timber, padouk is an absolute pig to work and I have also found the colour can bleed onto any adjacent, lighter woods when a finish is applied. Chris, you obviously enjoy a challenge but try some ash if you're feeling discouraged.

John

 

[Chris_belgium]

the fence should not extend more than about an inch beyond the cutting edge of the blade; you never trap wood between fence and blade.

John

This I don't fully understand, how do you mean 'the fence should not extend more than an inch............' the fence on a table saw extends a lot longer than an inch, or am I seeing it wrong?

About the padouk being very hard to work, I had little problems with it, even with my limited planing skill I manage to get full length shavings with a hand plane, the Zebrano on the other hand was absolutely terrible, tried every orientation but didn't manage to get one decent shaving. The padouk is very irritating to the nostrils when planing or sawing tough!!

 

[joiner_sim]

:arrow: I've been reading this thread since it started. I didn't make any comments, as I wanted to see how the work progressed. I did feel when looking and reading the methods, that there was an element of danger in the way the timber was being used.

Just remember that if something could go wrong, it probably will. Stay safe!

 

[dennis]

Moz

We are not comparing like for like, as a thicknesser is the machine designed for this application. I mentioned feed rate as I have only come across thicknessers with single or dual speed, and as you correctly say, too slow a feed rate with a router creates burn. You mentioned the ripple effect of a 88mm cutter block, and said,[imagine the effect with a 12mm cutter]. I am pointing out that you can get a comparable finish with a small diameter cutter.

Due to the use of a cutter protector, and therefore minimal cutter projection and minimal cut and featherboards I do not accept that it is inevitable that the cutter will break. Admittedly it is possible, just as it is possible for hundreds of other unfortunate things to happen with power tools and machines.


Dennis

 

[MikeG.]

And thank you for that again IMHO I feel te setup as being as safe as normal routing on the table.

Chris,

you have received some quite harsh words and I commend you on your calm reaction.

I was one of those that posted to say that I have done this, and as I have said a number of times......whilst it can be done, it is never as safe as the normal set up. With the normal set-up, if something goes wrong the work will be pushed off the fence and away from the cutter. With this arrangement, there is nowhere for anything to go in the event of a problem. Add that to the isolated cutter, and this is inherently less safe than the orthodox method. You have mitigated the danger to an extent, but not eliminated it. I would hate you to approach this set up with anything other than the utmost caution.

So, I return to my earlier suggestions...........start with pine, then ash beech and sycamore. Sharpen up a plane and do lots of planing. There is a whole lot of nonsense talked about planing, and it is a relatively easy skill to pick up. I guarantee that in a few weeks time you will wonder why you bothered with this router table arrangement. But....

.......don't forget this technique. One day, when you have really got to grips with woodworking and all your tools, you might just have an occasion to return to it for some strange job that can't be done any other way.

Mike

 

[moz]

OK Dennis,

A router gives a comparable finish to a handplane or well set up machine planer. Fine.

You can lead a horse to water.

 

[MikeG.]

Moz,

this is a very tolerant place! People don't agree on everything, and bring all sorts of different experiences and views to the party......

You will be a very frustrated person if you try and convert everyone to your viewpoint every time. My own view is that 6 postings is a bit sooner than most to be resorting to sarcasm.

Mike

 

[Ironballs]

Good point Mike