Windows XP's demise - sits back; opens popcorn

[DrPhill]

Eric, kdampney and Paul Hannaby - Thanks for explaining it so clearly; I'll pass it on to my father on Friday. Convincing him to buy new work PCs may be difficult, however, as he still doesn't know what a virus is...

Mark

Hmmmm, if it is the parting with money that is the stumbling block then you could likely run a Linux on the same box instead of / as well as xp. Zero cost (well one dvd and a bit of download time). If you want to go this route someone here will burn the install dvd for you. That is the hardest bit if you live on ms-island.

I have been running without any virus protection for over two years now. I still do not know what a virus is. Actually, I do. We had one at work on our carefully controlled and monitored windows-based system. Not smug at all. Oh no. Really.

Trouble is, DrPhill, that there is a learning curve for the user interface surely? I have no idea how much of a curve that is but would suggest that it is perhaps not ideal for some users?

It depends upon which Linux. I use Mint (Mate 13). As standard it has a 'start' menu button at the bottom left, 'running app' buttons in the task bar, and a desktop that you can drop icons onto.

Windows have menus, maximise/minimise/close buttons. You get a free browser and mail client along with open office stuff.

I converted my wife to Linux Mint. She hated the idea until I gave her a laptop with it on. She was using it in minutes. 'Its the same as windows really' - after all the anticipatory resistance. I have recently offered to reinstall windows if she wants it. 'Why should I?' she says. She really only uses the browser, some games, the text editor, movie player. She never needs to leave the friendly desktop. I am more techy, and do development work. There is still very little that really needs the command line but then it actually makes those things easier. As a developer linux feels 'quality' where windows always felt 'gimmick'. Basic BMW versus tricked up Ford, maybe. The one thing that may put you off is no silverlight support (but that is where a dual boot to XP would be handy).

Some fuzzy images in this review, but it may give you the feel for the thing. Or the official site screenshots here.

Things are different, but less different than migrating from xp to, say, win8.

Plus it is free. Try it. You can run from the install dvd (albeit very slowly) without installing anything to see if your hardware all works (mine did, every time, apart from the multicard slot on one laptop).

 

[DrPhill]

I've just done (most) of my first day's work ever using a Linux box. Not much different to Windows XP, at least not so I noticed. I may even stick with it on the desktop (had a different plan in mind).

Well done. ((Assuming you mean the first day you have worked with a linux box, rather than the first days work ever...... )) Some very dedicated people spent a lot of time reducing the barrier so we could get there easily and for free. The support website (should you ever need it) is frequented by similarly dedicated people. Rarely takes more than a day to solve any problem. Try that with MS.

 

[AndyT]

Actually, this whole XP/NHS thing has raised some huge warning bells. Just how secure are doctor's surgeries, hospitals, health professional's laptops? Are they locked down ? I doubt it. So you're going to have all these XP devices where anyone can stick in their favourite bit of software downloaded from the internet. A compromised piece of software.

I can offer a bit of reassurance there too. Remember in 2007 when someone in HMRC lost two CDs containing bank details of all the families who were receiving Child Benefit? That was such a noticeable event that it sent some quite productive ripples round the public sector. In 2008 there was a centrally funded bulk purchase of software to encrypt the hard drives of all laptops or designated PCs in the NHS, including those in GP Practices - around a million PCs. A huge amount of work went on as IT departments learned to deploy and manage encryption. Software was also provided to lock down ports so users could not do risky things like plugging in unknown usb drives.

I would not claim that every PC is now perfectly protected according to all the rules, but the situation was hugely improved by that project and the risks of data leakage were substantially reduced.

 

[stevebuk]

got my new computer with windoze7 coming next week..

 

[Benchwayze]

I was using XP right up until last month. No problems at all, aside from the odd pesky virus. I'm happy with 7 and it works fine, but some of my old programs are not usable anymore. So I am fixing my old PC to run on XP but with no internet connection. I'll have to activate it I guess, but once that's done, I shall disconnect it, and use it as a 'work' computer. saving my files on a memory stick if I need to transfer.

 

[Harbo]

If you buy the professional versions of 7 they have an inbuilt XP simulator built into the software.

Rod

 

[RogerS]

Hmmmm, if it is the parting with money that is the stumbling block then you could likely run a Linux on the same box instead of / as well as xp. Zero cost (well one dvd and a bit of download time). If you want to go this route someone here will burn the install dvd for you. That is the hardest bit if you live on ms-island.

I have been running without any virus protection for over two years now. I still do not know what a virus is. Actually, I do. We had one at work on our carefully controlled and monitored windows-based system. Not smug at all. Oh no. Really.

Trouble is, DrPhill, that there is a learning curve for the user interface surely? I have no idea how much of a curve that is but would suggest that it is perhaps not ideal for some users?

It depends upon which Linux. I use Mint (Mate 13). As standard it has a 'start' menu button at the bottom left, 'running app' buttons in the task bar, and a desktop that you can drop icons onto.

Windows have menus, maximise/minimise/close buttons. You get a free browser and mail client along with open office stuff.


......

That's a rather superficial comparison. What you are saying is that Chrome is the same as Safari is the same as Firefox. But they all have their different way of doing things. Different features. Different menu layouts. That is where the learning curve comes in for many people.

 

[Eric The Viking]

I was using XP right up until last month. No problems at all, aside from the odd pesky virus. I'm happy with 7 and it works fine, but some of my old programs are not usable anymore. So I am fixing my old PC to run on XP but with no internet connection. I'll have to activate it I guess, but once that's done, I shall disconnect it, and use it as a 'work' computer. saving my files on a memory stick if I need to transfer.

You *should* be able to get pretty much everything to work on Win 7. There are compatibility options to constrain the way it tries to run older programs. I'd be interested to know what doesn't work at the moment.

I'm not suggesting you shouldn't run XP that way, but a couple of thoughts:

1. make sure you have all the service packs/updates for XP - probably worth saving them to DVD or something, in case you ever need to rebuild it. After April 8th the patches/service packs may well disappear from Microsoft's support site (I don't know this for certain).
2. A 'middle-aged' PC should fly along with Linux, given the amount of memory you usually need for XP. It might be worth experimenting - you may find you like it! Things that run nicely, natively, on Linux include:

Sketchup
GIMP (picture editor)
Firefox (web browser)
Open Office (MS Office replacement)
Hugin (the virtual-reality panorama editor I use - it's amazingly fast compared to XP)
Aftershot (photographic workflow processing)
Wacom tablets (haven't tried my old serial one, but I'm going to!)
Dropbox (cloud file sharing)
Ubuntu One (more cloud file sharing)
Acrobat readers and writers

If you download the Ubuntu 13.10 desktop image and burn it to DVD (a gnat's too big for a CD now), you can boot from it straight into Ubuntu.

Ubuntu will run from the DVD (albeit slightly slowly), so you can play with it, and rebooting with the DVD removed will go back to XP with your old machine unchanged (apart from any files you saved to the hard disk whilst you were playing around).

As several others have said, you can have a machine that lets you choose which you boot from when you start the machine, BUT, as XP usually takes the whole disk during setup, you'd have to either start with a fresh disk or re-partition the existing one (which needs a clever utility to avoid data loss).

Regards,

E.

Hope that's useful.

 

[devonwoody]

My W7 pro.

Runs xp programs on an xp platform within w7? (that are compatible)

 

[Mark A]

Thanks for the advice, chaps. I'll certainly consider experimenting with Linux for our home PC; though for the two work computers I think it'll be best to stick with Microsoft as I live too far away to sort it out if anything goes wrong.

Cheers,
Mark

 

[ChrisR]

I thought that Microsoft had extended the (XP) support to 2015, I am sure that this was discussed on a previous thread, as I think I posted on that thread, but it may have been on a different forum.

If it was on this forum, then I apologise for maybe covering the same ground. I have been using (XP Media Version) since it was launched, and have still not learnt anything but the basic operation, never been able to use the (Media) part, I think its faulty, who knows ?.

I have resisted purchasing a new computer, as I don’t want start from square one and go through the trauma of trying to learn a new system, and thought that I was ok until 2015, before throwing in the towel.
So now looks like the end is in sight sooner than I thought. :evil:

Another point has just come to mind I assume also that all of my data, letters, photos etc, will not be recognised by a new operating system.


Take care, from a none computer savvy, old git. #-o

Chris R.

 

[Eric The Viking]

I thought that Microsoft had extended the (XP) support to 2015, I am sure that this was discussed on a previous thread, as I think I posted on that thread, but it may have been on a different forum.

This is not correct. Microsoft have been confusing about this (even the BBC had it wrong initially!), but for practical purposes, support finishes on April 8th 2014.

Another point has just come to mind I assume also that all of my data, letters, photos etc, will not be recognised by a new operating system.

Not correct either. Almost everything you might use instead of XP will work fine with your documents.
In fact, I fail to think of something that won't.

 

[Racers]

We have had problems at work with some programs not running under Windows 7, not really a surprise as I think we have 2000+
The important ones we have had to up grade to later versions.

Pete

 

[Benchwayze]

Eric...

With Win 7, my Canon Scanner is out of date. This also converts transparencies and negatives, to jpg files, and as such was extremely useful. So that alone makes it worth keeping a working XP PC.

My old Photoshop 6 doesn't work very well.
Half-Life 2 also plays tricks on me.
A whole series of Medal of Honour games are now useless. (These games cost money!) :twisted:
But SWMBO reckons I am too old to be playing those sorts of game anyway.

My encryption program, which I got as a freebie with a magazine, has finally met its match in Windows 7. and I need to buy a new program. :shock: Not that I have much use for it, as Word can encrypt its own files, so my spread sheets are covered.

Firefox suddenly seems prone to lots of Malware, so I have uninstalled it and I'm trying to use a browser I don't really like, namely Google Chrome.

I also need to get another OCR Program. I don't use OCR often, but it's good to have, to convert hard copy to Word docs.

At least I can still watch my 'Band of Brothers' set, as the DVD reader isn't affected!

Apart from that. I don't have to spend much. Hmm? :lol:

Ta Eric.

 

[ChrisR]

I thought that Microsoft had extended the (XP) support to 2015, I am sure that this was discussed on a previous thread, as I think I posted on that thread, but it may have been on a different forum.

This is not correct. Microsoft have been confusing about this (even the BBC had it wrong initially!), but for practical purposes, support finishes on April 8th 2014.

Another point has just come to mind I assume also that all of my data, letters, photos etc, will not be recognised by a new operating system.

Not correct either. Almost everything you might use instead of XP will work fine with your documents.
In fact, I fail to think of something that won't.

Eric.

Many thanks for info, so after April 8th, if (XP) goes belly up that’s it.

The reason I asked would all my data be lost if I upgraded to a new computer and operating system, was from my past experience when I purchased my present computer a (Dell), which was several years ago now when (XP Media) was launched, I was running a (HP) computer, can’t remember which version of windows.

However the Dell came with a transfer lead and a programme on a CD, the purpose of which was to transfer all of the data from my existing (HP) computer to the new (Dell), well that was the theory, but in practice all data was lost, if I remember correctly both computers just locked up, I was advised at the time that it was due to the (HP) and the (Dell) not being compatible. :?:

As I said in my last post, I think when (XP) closes, its time for me to throw in the towel, as its all getting above my skill level, (which computer wise is near zero).
But should I decide to take the plunge, and purchase a new computer, with what ever windows version is now being used, to ensure compatibility, transfering my existing data I presume I should stick with (Dell).

Chris R.

 

[RogerS]

.....
As I said in my last post, I think when (XP) closes, its time for me to throw in the towel, as its all getting above my skill level, (which computer wise is near zero).
But should I decide to take the plunge, and purchase a new computer, with what ever windows version is now being used, to ensure compatibility, transfering my existing data I presume I should stick with (Dell).

Chris R.

Chris, why don't you go to a friendly local computer supplier who will (a) make up a computer for you much more cheaply than buying one from Dell or HP and (b) if you sweet talk him, transfer your data over for you ?

 

[Benchwayze]

Chris,
I don't find much difference in operation between 7 and XP. It's slicker, and one or two operations differ a little. But it's intuitive, and you can even have the 'Classic Windows' view, which looks more like Windows 98 to me!
Give it a go. You'll be surprised.

Bester Luck

 

[Sheptonphil]

.....
As I said in my last post, I think when (XP) closes, its time for me to throw in the towel, as its all getting above my skill level, (which computer wise is near zero).
But should I decide to take the plunge, and purchase a new computer, with what ever windows version is now being used, to ensure compatibility, transfering my existing data I presume I should stick with (Dell).

Chris R.

Chris, why don't you go to a friendly local computer supplier who will (a) make up a computer for you much more cheaply than buying one from Dell or HP and (b) if you sweet talk him, transfer your data over for you ?

Absolutely the route for the less computer savvy and those who have only limited user needs. A good local independent PC shop like mine will be as Roger says, cheaper and far less stressful.

This last fortnight has seen a big rise in enquirers for replacement computers, both new and refurbed. As I am also a Microsoft authorised refurbisher, we can now upgrade to Windows 7 on suitable XP or Vista systems at very reasonable cost for the licence (£23), making a refurbished computer a great viable alternative for low end users.

If it's a school or charitable organisation (plus a few other qualifying organisations), the Win 7 and office 2010 licence, under the citizenship programme are only a fiver each. Ask at your local computer shop.

Phil

 

[Eric The Viking]

Chris, why don't you go to a friendly local computer supplier who will (a) make up a computer for you much more cheaply than buying one from Dell or HP and (b) if you sweet talk him, transfer your data over for you ?

Absolutely the route for the less computer savvy and those who have only limited user needs. A good local independent PC shop like mine will be as Roger says, cheaper and far less stressful.

Absolutely.

I'm in the industry. I have been for almost 25 years.

It's taught me one significant thing: when to throw in the towel and ask an expert. It has now become so specialised that it's impossible to stay on top of all the disciplines. I still do a lot of web stuff, but even there it's hard.

The trouble with computing (from an insider's perspective) is that every few years some sort of transformational technology comes along and you have to discard a lot of accumulated knowledge. That's OK when you're 25, or even 40 (at a pinch), but I just can't learn as fast as I once did.

Paying those who know isn't a cop-out, it's a sensible route to peace of mind. I just hope you've got someone like Phil in your area!

E.

PS: I just heard this morning that one of my local surgeries is running a lot of XP machines (20+), that have to have internet connections. They don't have a plan from the NHS department supposedly supporting them. It doesn't surprise me.

 

[devonwoody]

I have another computer loaded XP and I do not connect to the internet and it works perfectly for all my old stuff.
So ChrisR, keep your xp and continue, if you want to go on the internet just do not have any financial information of any sort on your xp and don't worry.