Windows XP's demise - sits back; opens popcorn

[Steve Maskery]

That's a good idea. I too have a laptop running XP. I bet it's not been switched on for a year or more I could play with Linux on that.

Does anyone rate Open Office? I have it on my Mac, but I don't like it, it's very clunky, especially the spreadsheet software, compared with MS Office. So much so that I still keep my accounts on my PC rather than my Mac. I suppose I shall have to change my ways.
S

 

[Benchwayze]

I copy my finance files onto a couple of pen drives (memory-stick?). Then I use a file shredder to dispose of the originals. I feel safe, but I don't really know if it's secure. So far though, no problems. (Touch Wood!) I also shred the empty space on my drive every week or so.

 

[tnoy66]

So where is the best place to get this "new" windows 7? My PC must be 6 years old now and I'm not in a position to be able to buy a new one.

I need to look into this Linux thing too I think. If I install this, do I still have direct access to my photos, word docs etc or would they need putting on again in the Linux part? Are word docs readable with a similar Linux programme?

I hate technology at times :roll:

 

[DrPhill]

I need to look into this Linux thing too I think. If I install this, do I still have direct access to my photos, word docs etc or would they need putting on again in the Linux part? Are word docs readable with a similar Linux programme?

If you dual boot your machine then you will be able to see your old pictures just fine. You will have to hunt a little, but they will be there.
Alternately (and as a safety policy anyway) copy the stuff you really want to disk. Then you can see it on disk.

One of the biggest difference for me was the open nature of the OS. For example windows will only look at 'sanctioned' file systems - FAT16, FAT32, NTFS. Anything else is just 'corrupted disk'. Linux does not care 'oh a windows disk, easy' 'hey thats a mac disk, I can read that'. So when you dual boot, windows will ignore the linux partition, or regard it as 'empty' or 'corrupt'. Linux will recognise the ms partition quite happily and let you look at it using the linux file server. Linux will even try to run your windows programs if you install Wine. Some people have great success with this, I am not a fan.

There are linux programs that read word docs - Open Office comes ready installed with Linux Mint. MS keeps changing the format to make money and keep ahead of rivals, so sometimes the linux stuff will be a version or so behind. But then most home users are a little behind the MS versions anyway. Again, Open Office will also support other proprietry formats where it can.

Hope that helps

Phill

 

[Sheptonphil]

So where is the best place to get this "new" windows 7? My PC must be 6 years old now and I'm not in a position to be able to buy a new one.

I hate technology at times :roll:

Unless you buy full retail version at any shop or online retailer, the bet way is to take your computer to a registered MS refurbisher. The job needn't cost more than a retail licence and the work will be done professionally.

Phil

 

[devonwoody]

Dare I mention that the BBC teletext last night stated the was a security problem for Apple computers, plus those ipad things etc.
The computer situation is unresolved and Apple are working on it urgently.

Just goes to show, you cannot trust computers for financial transactions, the day will come.

 

[RogerS]

Dare I mention that the BBC teletext last night stated the was a security problem for Apple computers, plus those ipad things etc.
The computer situation is unresolved and Apple are working on it urgently.

Just goes to show, you cannot trust computers for financial transactions, the day will come.

Wrong and out-of-date information. The security fix is already out. It only affected Apple 10.9 on the Macs and some versions of iOS.

You really are a bit of a drama queen at times, dw.

 

[devonwoody]

Roger the text last night said there was still an unresolved issue with Apple computers.

I was just attempting to point out that even the much hyped up Apple system is not bomb proof either, so all need to beware.

 

[RogerS]

Roger the text last night said there was still an unresolved issue with Apple computers.

I was just attempting to point out that even the much hyped up Apple system is not bomb proof either, so all need to beware.

The text is out of date. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-26335701

 

[Eric The Viking]

The BBC also mis-reported the issues around XP, causing dangerous chaos in the process.

If you want the accurate detail with these reports, go to the source, Microsoft in one case and Apple in t'other.

That's why I put a link to the actual Microsoft article in our blog, and why the BBC had to rewrite
(presumably after complaints from the public).

Rumours don't help anyone.

E.

 

[Mark A]

Success! It only took (ahem) 7 hours this evening and I now have a fully functioning computer running Linux Ubuntu! The installation instructions for Ubuntu are quite good; however, it took me several hours to realise that I had to go into the BIOS to change the boot settings from XP to USB. After that it was very straightforward.

My first impressions with Ubuntu are very good - it's nicely laid out and the Chromium web browser is very rapid, even on my dinosaur of a machine.

Mark

 

[Eric The Viking]

My first impressions with Ubuntu are very good - it's nicely laid out and the Chromium web browser is very rapid, even on my dinosaur of a machine.

Pleased you're pleased!

I think the as-supplied browser is actually Firefox (it was in my installer), but it is indeed faster than my Windows equivalent (on a more powerful machine).

You'll find loads of handy goodies in the "Ubuntu Software Center", including WINE, which is a Windows emulator for those troublesome "no-version-for-Linux" bits of software. I'm having a little frustration at the moment with the free version of Sketchup, as its installer is complaining about needing an XP service pack! People have made it work, however, so I'm optimistic that it can. Happily most of my other specialist programs either have very good, free alternatives (e.g. GIMP instead of Photoshop*) or already run under Linux (AfterShot, my photo workflow processor). There are a few oddities that might cause problems (Vegas Pro video editing and Sound Forge audio), but on the whole, I'm beginning to realise I've wasted quite a lot of time and money on Windows in the past.

I don't like the look of the standard Ubuntu desktop though, and on my second Linux box I've replaced it with "Xfce" from "xubuntu" It looks and behaves very much like a cross between the best bits of the 'traditional' old Windows and Mac OSX. The status bar is at the top of the screen, and the 'start' menu drops down, for example. I've had my windows machines running like that for more than ten years (to be more like Macs), so it's not strange. There's also a mac-like "dock" at the bottom. It's also significantly faster than the standard Ubuntu desktop too. I think I'll stick with it. The only drawback was that I had to install Libre Office separately, as it wasn't pre-loaded, but that took about five minutes, literally.

This particular machine is running 64-bit Ubuntu 13.10, with 4GB of memory. The main box has 8GB, but, as it's only a server, I intend to swap the memory over. It's blazing fast now, even though the processor is a lot slower than my fastest Windows box (the Linux ones have two processor cores, the big Windows box has four!), so it will fly with 8GB of RAM. Overall it cost me £140 approx, which was initially £175 with £50 cashback and shipping. To be fair, I already had a gash monitor and keyboard. The server box was £200 all-in, including a refurbished 19" flat panel and the extra memory (that one was bought on a £100 cashback scheme that's had ended when I bought the second one). So there are bargains out there.

I enquired yesterday at a local PC shop about upgrading my XP licences to Win 7. They're not Microsoft refurbishers, and weren't very interested. It would cost me around £150 for the Windows licences alone (need the Pro version), without the cost of their time. There IS a refurbisher a few miles away. I intend to get in touch to see what they can offer.

I'm beginning to think the days of 'stand-and-deliver' marketing in the software business may at last be coming to an end.

E.

*I haven't run Photoshop for about 13 years, as I've found faster and far cheaper tools to do what I need. GIMP is slow under Windows (there is a version for XP and above), but fast under Linux, and it's a very comprehensive graphics tool. There are some odd quirks, for example you 'export' to most standard file types (jpeg, png, etc.) rather than 'save' them, but I can easily live with that.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Just posted this:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/sketchup-on-linux-t77944.html

It's a bit clunky but it works.

 

[xy mosian]

In recent years I have helped a number of people to re-jig their computers, purely on an amateur basis. This has generally involved the installation of newer, or different, operating systems. Either done personally or via the telephone offering guidance or just someone to read on-line instructions.
Most of those I have helped, have been happy to use any system put in front of them provided it worked when switched on. By this I mean that they wished to use the machine in the manner of a tool, not really caring about the way it worked.
I agree, in general terms, with all that has been said about the Linux operating system. However, for someone more used to perfecting secret mitred dovetails, or book matched veneering, the propect of learning to use a different system may well be daunting.
Eric The Viking's post on the installation of Sketchup, sketchup-on-linux-t77944.html, shows one of the problems, and the way to solve it. I wonder how many of those thinking of changing will wonder just what "64 bit" means for example. Most of the problems can be worked around of course, but some will be put off perhaps permanently.
These snags do not only occur with Linux, a friend recently bought a new machine with Windows 8.1 installed, there were difficulties learning just how to use that. The same thing happened when changing from Windows XP to Windows 7. A lot of the tricky bits were akin to finding out where the intermittent rear wiper switch is on a new car, some were more difficult to sort.
As I suggested earlier. Computer users are happiest using a tool, rather than having to set it up.
xy

 

[Eric The Viking]

In recent years I have helped a number of people to re-jig their computers, purely on an amateur basis. This has generally involved the installation of newer, or different, operating systems. Either done personally or via the telephone offering guidance or just someone to read on-line instructions.
Most of those I have helped, have been happy to use any system put in front of them provided it worked when switched on. By this I mean that they wished to use the machine in the manner of a tool, not really caring about the way it worked.
I agree, in general terms, with all that has been said about the Linux operating system. However, for someone more used to perfecting secret mitred dovetails, or book matched veneering, the propect of learning to use a different system may well be daunting.
Eric The Viking's post on the installation of Sketchup, sketchup-on-linux-t77944.html, shows one of the problems, and the way to solve it. I wonder how many of those thinking of changing will wonder just what "64 bit" means for example. Most of the problems can be worked around of course, but some will be put off perhaps permanently.
These snags do not only occur with Linux, a friend recently bought a new machine with Windows 8.1 installed, there were difficulties learning just how to use that. The same thing happened when changing from Windows XP to Windows 7. A lot of the tricky bits were akin to finding out where the intermittent rear wiper switch is on a new car, some were more difficult to sort.
As I suggested earlier. Computer users are happiest using a tool, rather than having to set it up.
xy

I can't realistically help that.

People wouldn't expect good results from a bandsaw, for example, without investing a little time into getting it set up correctly.

If you want the benefits of a rather good 3D CAD package such as SketchUp, it's wholly unreasonable to expect it to be (a) free, (b) instantaneously productive. I once started to save up for AutoCAD in the 1980s - I gave up after a while when it became clear it was wholly beyond my reach. SketchUp "Make" is far more powerful, and it's entirely free.

In real life, i.e. not on an internet forum, I try to help a lot of people with a lot pf PC issues, pro bono if you will (as it's how I make my income, too). Many have the capacity to understand their PCs sufficiently, but don't want to, for whatever reason.

It tries my patience. I've told my kids, since they were small, that ignorance and mistakes aren't of themselves shameful things, but I'm resolute that wilful ignorance is indeed shameful.

And it wastes a lot of other people's time, too (I don't mean you, obviously).

E.

 

[xy mosian]

Eric, I agree with all you have said, especially "wilful ignorance is indeed shameful". However some of the posts in this thread appear to suggest that the installation of a Linux operating system is straight forward. For some, perhaps many, it will be. For some it will verge on a nightmare.
xy

 

[RogerS]

..... For some it will verge on a nightmare.
xy

Which was exactly my point when I talked about 'learning curves'. I agree with you entirely.

In many ways it seems to me that the IT industry (in its broadest sense) is simply making a rod for its own back. Years and years ago, emails were simply text. Now they are or can be written in HTML. That opens up a can of worms in terms of possible security holes etc. It also opens up the possibility for more and more complex systems where the change of one component from supplier X has knock-on ramifications with other stuff.

Case in point. My iPod Touch wants me to let it upgrade to the latest iOS 6 to incorporate the latest security fix (and discussed in another thread). But this latest version will only work with iTunes 11. But I don't want to use iTunes 11. I have taken (admittedly) only a cursory look at the user interface and, certainly at first glance, it does not give me easily the information that iTunes 10 does. At least from a classical enthusiasts perspective. I know that I am not alone in this view. It might be possible that iTunes 11 can be tweaked but I lack the energy, time or enthusiasm to try and find out if it does. While I can still use iTunes 10 then I would much rather spend my time doing other more productive things. A point echo'd in your post.

Even if I were to upgrade iTunes 11 I have another vital piece of software (the Logitech Squeeze Server) that interfaces very neatly with my iTunes 10 classical collection. It might also work with iTunes 11 but I'd hate to find out that it didn't. But let us posit that Logitech Squeeze Server does work with iTunes 11. I have other software that in turn then relies on Squeeze Server. Two versions of iPeng (running on iOS 5 and iOS 6), SqueezePlay on the iMac, Squeeze Commander and Squeeze Play on the Android phone. My Android phone runs a particular version of the Android family. I may find then that Squeeze Commander won't work with my Android version (indeed, a newer version is available for my phone but because it only has a wee CPU the performance hit is too great) and that Android has to be updated. Which might then stop other apps on my phone that work with the old Android system but not the new one.

And all because of a security fix! So I don't do that security fix on the basis of my own risk assessment.

 

[devonwoody]

Last week I had a Microsoft security alert update which gave the impression it was urgent so I allowed the update in.

Next time I used my scanner/printer Epson, the scanner would not work and I had to find out why, I cured it with requesting scanner default settings . Next thing I needed to replace all colour inks they were low I know but all of them at once, no way.

So all types of computer suffer from updates.

 

[RogerS]

Last week I had a Microsoft security alert update which gave the impression it was urgent so I allowed the update in.

Next time I used my scanner/printer Epson, the scanner would not work and I had to find out why, I cured it with requesting scanner default settings . Next thing I needed to replace all colour inks they were low I know but all of them at once, no way.

So all types of computer suffer from updates.

I know. I had a security update from Apple and I suddenly found out that my printer had run out of paper. You just can't trust these updates. :wink:

 

[devonwoody]

Last week I had a Microsoft security alert update which gave the impression it was urgent so I allowed the update in.

Next time I used my scanner/printer Epson, the scanner would not work and I had to find out why, I cured it with requesting scanner default settings . Next thing I needed to replace all colour inks they were low I know but all of them at once, no way.

So all types of computer suffer from updates.

I know. I had a security update from Apple and I suddenly found out that my printer had run out of paper. You just can't trust these updates. :wink:

Roger that is because you spent so much money purchasing Apple equipment, it left you short of money to purchase more paper.