Window Frames

[Shaman]

I have a post-war neo Georgain place and am just now having to go round repairing all the dodgy sash windows (the kind with spiral balances).
I have been very happy with the results on making new sliding sashes and replacing the odd pair of balances.
However, I have found one window where the condition of the sill is so poor that the only thing will probably be a new frame. This is not something I have approached before but the price of professional replacement is extortionate and I am not prepared to see a plastic lookalike go in.
I would appreciate any advice on the right methodology and perhaps suppliers of hardwood sills to reduce the project by the odd hour.
Fortunately the balances, and state-of-the-art parting beads are easily available so the end result should be a pretty decent window.

 

[RogerS]

Shaman

I'm no expert but 'Bench Joinery' by Peter Brett is my bible on these sort of things. A wealth of constructional drawings ISBN 0-7487-6533-6.

Would you save that much time on the hardwood sill? Just a thought.

Where do you get your 'state-of-the-art' parting beads and why are they 'state-of-the-art'?

Cheers

Roger

 

[Shaman]

Thank Roger,
I will check out that book. I have also found the Carpentry & Joinery books by Brian Porter to be excellent assists for renovation of period joinery.

The parting beads (various nylon & brush designs) are available from Touchwood along with all the other hardware. See: http://www.sashwindows.info/productrange.htm

Cheers M

 

[RogerS]

Excellent link, M. Now all I need is someway of killing all the flies that nest down inside our sashes :evil:

 

[Shaman]

The spiders and flies are indeed a problem. However, I reckon if you carefully fit all the draughproofing products now available for sash windows - that could reduce their numbers somewhat.
The Touchwood people btw have a very nice brochure. They are a bit slow on e-mails and you may need to leave a message on their answerphone when you call but they always reply and the despatch of goods is incredibly fast usually.
Cheer and good luck hoovering out the flies.
M

 

[Jake]

How do their prices compare with Mighton?

 

[tim]

Excellent link, M. Now all I need is someway of killing all the flies that nest down inside our sashes :evil:

Roger - search under 'cluster flies'. They are particularly common in Herefordshire. The council regard them as a pest and will come and get rid of them for you - involves a smoke bomb and a frosty day. The smoke chases them out and the frost kills them. They produce a pheromone which means that next years hatchings will nest in the same place. We have 8 velux windows upstairs. On a good day at this time of year, I can hoover up around 3,000 flies. :twisted:

Cheers

Tim

 

[RogerS]

Tim - thanks for that. They've been driving us to distraction!

 

[JFC]

Shaman , if you've made the sashes you will find the box easy especially if you are using spirals .
I glue and screw mine together .

 

[lugo35]

may sound a bit rough but we used to nail the frames together with ring shank nails , due to the construction they were very solid.
as jfc says if you can make the sashes the frames are easy, the cills are prob the most difficult bit due to the size of the section.

 

[JFC]

Lugo thats not rough atall ! ive taken out 100 year old windows that are held together with cut nails . I think we over do alot now a days .

 

[Shaman]

Shaman , if you've made the sashes you will find the box easy especially if you are using spirals .
I glue and screw mine together .

Thank Lugo35.... nice pics. My windows have the spiral balances embedded in the sides of the stiles so there are no 'boxes' as such. I am more daunted by the sill and am uncertain about little details such as 'do the exterior linings need to be morticed or recessed into the sill etc. The basic frame looks a snap.
Most of my woodworking and diy has been well away from serious building materials like brickwork so I am a tad nervous.
Thanks again,
M

 

[JFC]

You can see from the window on the right that the box is just let in the thickness of the timber , you will still need to make a box sash frame for your window to fit the rebated brickwork of your building .
The timber that takes your parting bead is just housed in to the cill . Alsford timber still sell the cill section but i think they only do it in soft wood now .

 

[Shaman]

You can see from the window on the right that the box is just let in the thickness of the timber , you will still need to make a box sash frame for your window to fit the rebated brickwork of your building .
The timber that takes your parting bead is just housed in to the cill . Alsford timber still sell the cill section but i think they only do it in soft wood now .

Thanks for the Alford tip I'll check them out.
My windows don't seem to have box sections at all. The stiles are simply two 35mm x 5" planks morticed into top rail and sill and into which the linings and beading are fitted.
I have an identical window in the garage with no rendering or plastering to conceal the truth so I'm pretty sure there is no brickwork rebate. You see this is why I am nervous!! Do I need to remove the exisiting frame first to see and then replace it while I get on with the project?
Cheers,
M

 

[Jake]

I hesitate to suggest this on this board, but as a practical measure I am sure you have more interesting and rewarding tasks to do. How long are you going to be in this house?

If the answer is less than 5-10 years, I'd strip the cill and and surrounding wood, flood it with rot killer, and then impregnate everything remotely (ex-) rotten and papery with one of the proprietary rot-repair resins that effectively turn the remains of the wood into a cellulose/plastic matrix (like glass-fibre, with the remaining fibres of the wood playing the glass-fibre role).

If these have spiral balances in the stiles, they don't sound like classics that deserve to be renewed in traditional ways for the sake of heritage or historic craftsmanship.

 

[JFC]

Hmmmm :-k When was the building built ? If you take off the architrave you will see if it has a box or not . If it hasn't your job is even easier

 

[Shaman]

Yep... no box. Confidence restored.
Do I need to worry about supporting the brickwork when I remove the old frame? House built in 1949 btw.
M

 

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[Shaman]

Yep... no box. Confidence restored.
Do I need to worry about supporting the brickwork when I remove the old frame? House built in 1949 btw.
M

Possibly. Just post war was a very bad period for housebuilding - too much done too quickly.

Oh Great
Hope mine is one of the better one's, built specially for a village bigwig. The window is upstairs and the only bricks above it are in a fan shape - presumably they all lock together to form a lintel. Above that is the eaves.
Not too much danger of the house falling down hopefully.

 

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