Window frame advice

[Dee J]

Thinking aloud and seeking opinion and recommendations...........

Our house is old enough to have lost any trace of whatever might have qualified as an original window (c400years old farm-workers cottages). Now currently equipped with an eclectic mix of 19th century casement (only one), mid 20th century wooden casement, and late 20th century upvc... As part of some building work, a new window is needed (about 900mm high 1100 wide) plus a similar sized wooden casement needs replaceing (well at least it was biodegradeable!).

Starting with the new and replacement windows we'd like to achieve some sort of coherence of styles (replacing others as we can afford them).

The windows are relatively small, and set in very thick walls (600-900mm rubble stone and cob overlaid with 1950s render), so small frame sections preferred (to maximise light). Given the wall thickness, inward openning lights would work well and if a central mullion could be avoided so much the better.

If it wasn't for the building regs issues I'd probably have a go at making something myself - probably inclined towards 19th century style.... but making to 21st century requirements needs an investment in tooling thats probably not justified - I'm primarily an electrician / electronics engineer - my woodworking equipment is mainly hand-tooling plus diy grade power tools.

Other design or material suggestions welcome! (The house isn't listed, we're not in the national park, the main windows don't face the road and most extermal character was erased in the 1950s to 1970s by render and fibre-cement roof tiles)

I'm in rural west Devon if anyone has any supplier or maker recommendations.

Thanks for reading

Dee

 

[StevieB]

The thinnest frames will probably be available in aluminium, but they are not everyones cup of tea (you can get them in white by the way!).

Steve

 

[Dee J]

The thinnest frames will probably be available in aluminium, but they are not everyones cup of tea (you can get them in white by the way!).

Steve

Quite like some of the aluminium frames but I think they look better in dark colours .... I'm a bit nervous in approaching the national window companies though. Some personal recommendation would be good.

Dee

 

[studders]

Not a recommendation but....

Were it me and, as they are at the back of the house, I'd do them myself and ignore all the BS red tape rubbish, gets right on my chuff it does.

 

[Deejay]

Hello Dee

I agree with Steve. Try making one and see how it goes.

There's at least one thread somewhere about making frames.

I'll see if I can find it.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Dee J]

Sadly at least one window will be witnessed by building control - It'll be the one related to the building work - so I at least need that one done legally. After that, who knows - but I'd still like subsequent ones to match that one..

Dee

 

[Deejay]

Dee

Sadly at least one window will be witnessed by building control

Hopefully, your BCO will have some common sense. Ask him (or her). If you don't get a blank refusal, make one up to suit DG units and get their approval before you order the glazing units.

Couldn't find the thread I mentioned, but there are a couple which might help ...

window-regs-t48443.html

Scroll down to Joiner_sims post for a couple of links.

making-a-window-with-basic-tools-lots-of-pics-t18197.html

If you search the forum for 'window' and then search the results for 'frame', you'll find lots of stuff.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Dibs-h]

I'm a bit nervous in approaching the national window companies though

I would be too - no matter how tight your belt was, they'd have your pants down! Might be worth checking Google, Yell, etc. There's bound to be a Aluminium window manufacturer, supplier or similar somewhere that would supply yo, based on drawing\spec supplied.

HIH

Dibs

 

[Deejay]

The thread I mentioned is here ...

post583097.html

and here ...

http://thewoodhaven.co.uk/phpBB3/viewto ... dow#p22486

Cheers

Dave

 

[studders]

that would supply yo,

Dibs

Getting all 'street' Dibs?

 

[RogerM]

Sadly at least one window will be witnessed by building control - It'll be the one related to the building work - so I at least need that one done legally. After that, who knows - but I'd still like subsequent ones to match that one..

Dee

Dee - I've discovered that there is a lot of bs talked about windows. I've now made 3 singles in iroko (which are shown here) and I'm nearing completion of 2 sets of 3 bifold doors (WIP thread imminent) and I've still got a double and a triple window to build.

The BCO has been no problem. All he wants to see is that we are not fitting a load of tat and that the glazing meets with the thermal insulation requirements - easily done with 4/16/4 sealed units in Planitherm Total+ which I've got from Plymouth Glass in Devonport. There was even room for negotiation on trickle vents, which are the spawn of the devil, and he agreed that provided that there was either alternative ventilation in the room, or there was a lockable night latch position, then no trickle vent was required.

Also did you know that in many cases you can nominate your own BCO from an independant company. The advantage is that they are normally slightly cheaper than the local authority BCO and also they are only interesting in ensuring that you are building to a compliant standard. They are not concerned with planning issues which can be to your advantage. For our extension we're using JHAI Ltd and they have been very flexible and helpful.

I cannot emphasise enough how useful building a sample out of some 4 x 2 was. It cost next to nothing to do and I learned so much. I see you live in West Devon so you cannot be a million miles from where we live about 10 miles SE of Plymouth. PM me if you want some help.

 

[Dibs-h]

that would supply yo,

Dibs

Getting all 'street' Dibs?

 

[RogerS]

Sadly at least one window will be witnessed by building control - It'll be the one related to the building work - so I at least need that one done legally. After that, who knows - but I'd still like subsequent ones to match that one..

Dee

Dee - I've discovered that there is a lot of bs talked about windows. I've now made 3 singles in iroko (which are shown here) and I'm nearing completion of 2 sets of 3 bifold doors (WIP thread imminent) and I've still got a double and a triple window to build.

The BCO has been no problem. All he wants to see is that we are not fitting a load of tat and that the glazing meets with the thermal insulation requirements - easily done with 4/16/4 sealed units in Planitherm Total+ which I've got from Plymouth Glass in Devonport. There was even room for negotiation on trickle vents, which are the spawn of the devil, and he agreed that provided that there was either alternative ventilation in the room, or there was a lockable night latch position, then no trickle vent was required.

Also did you know that in many cases you can nominate your own BCO from an independant company. The advantage is that they are normally slightly cheaper than the local authority BCO and also they are only interesting in ensuring that you are building to a compliant standard. They are not concerned with planning issues which can be to your advantage. For our extension we're using JHAI Ltd and they have been very flexible and helpful.

I cannot emphasise enough how useful building a sample out of some 4 x 2 was. It cost next to nothing to do and I learned so much. I see you live in West Devon so you cannot be a million miles from where we live about 10 miles SE of Plymouth. PM me if you want some help.

Spot on. You don't need modern tooling at all. As long as the dgus meet the daft 1.2 ..which Roger's spec does (argon filled though, I thought). Trickle vents only need be fitted if the originals had them, was my understanding.

 

[Dee J]

Thanks All

that was quite inspirational.

Roger - thanks for the offer of help - your laminated frame method seems to work well. Might well try making up a sample window.

Thanks again

Dee

 

[Steve Maskery]

When I made the french windows and upstairs windows in my last house, the BCO was very understanding. I didn't want trickle vents but suggested a traditional air brick. No problem.
I also recommend a mock-up, it's a very valuable exercise.
I have a very good document on modern window design. If you PM me your email, I'll send it.
Regards
Steve

 

[Digit]

Some personal recommendation would be good.

Stay well away from them would be my recommendation!

Roy.

 

[RogerS]

Dee

Just re-read your thread. Your walls. How do the current window frames fit in? Is there something that blocks off the rubble infill between the outer and inner skin of your walls? Else remove original window...releasing all that loose rubble up inside between the two skins. Bad news.

 

[Dee J]

Dee

Just re-read your thread. Your walls. How do the current window frames fit in? Is there something that blocks off the rubble infill between the outer and inner skin of your walls? Else remove original window...releasing all that loose rubble up inside between the two skins. Bad news.

That can be an issue .......... and I certainly wouldn't want to be making any more window opennings at ground floor level (first floor cob is far more stable :wink: ) ... but we're dealing with existing opennings where the reveals are stable and finished - and the house is already on it's forth or fifth set of windows - the remaining steel crittall from the 1930s were incorporated into the workshop. So it's had (at least) - Original 16th/17th century whatever (slats? shutters?), 19th century wood, and 20th century Steel, Wood and Plastic - I think it'll cope with another set.

Dee