Why Two?

[iNewbie]

PS Hock blades are made for him in France and the only Hock thing about them is the logo. I could get some from the same place with the Grimsdale logo, I expect.

Not all of them. Hock FAQ

And why does it matter where they are made. I'm feeling some resistance, Renee...

 

[yetloh]

Ok, I give up. You guys are hopeless, so instead of fighting it, I'll go with the flow. The next time I buy an old Stanley plane, first thing I do is throwing away the blade and chipbreaker. The handles are probably a bit worn down too, so I throw them away too. The body casting can't be flat enough, so I throw it away. Now I don't have anything to attach the frog too anymore, so also that one can go into the skip. What's left, the levercap? Well, maybe I can use that on the next old Stanley I buy.

No doubt you will say I misrepresent you, but your constant vehemence in insisting on the rightness of your approach comes over as very dogmatic and disrespectful of other people's approaches and views. I do not dispute the rightness of your approach for you and it may well be right for many others, so it is perfectly valid, but I and many others have found other approaches which work for us and which we prefer, often (as in my case) having done the sorts of things that you keep insisting upon. Can we not have a little more tolerance of the many and varied ways in which we woodworkers go about our craft.

Jim

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Jacob,

Most serious cabinetmakers went out of their way to get hold of planes by the likes of Spiers and Norris. They had thicker blades like so many of today's.

It may surprise you to learn that A2 comes in many recipes. Decent heat treating and grinding are another matter. All A2 is not equal.

It takes me no longer to sharpen than 01 or Stanley's hideous Tungsten, Vanadium .....................

I'm sure you could. Not prejudiced ?

David Charlesworth

One very minor quibble, David - A2 is the 'shorthand' designation for toolsteel of a particular chemical composition, so all A2 conforms to the same 'recipe' - details in this link; http://www.westyorkssteel.com/tool-steel/a2/ . The specification for chemical composition is the same on both sides of the Atlantic.

I would however agree that not all finished woodworking tools and blades made from A2 toolsteel as supplied by their makers are equal - the heat treatment is more complex than for (say) O1 steel or the old straight carbon 'cast steel' - it seems that some manufacturers have achieved better control of the process than others. Also, the link above does not mention the optional step of cryogenic treatment, which many peoples' experiences suggest is one that further improves the performance of A2 steel for woodworking applications.

That apart, I agree with you entirely.

 

[Corneel]

Sorry Jim if I present myself too dogmatic. In fact it's just the heat of the discussion. But in regards to the discussion about the quality of the old Stanley planes, I am constantly trying to say "try the plane before you buy new parts", while others dismiss the quality of the original blades right away. I feel my message is less dogmatic in fact.

That last message you quoted was a joke of course. I'll try to be a little less repetitive in the future, maybe that helps.

 

[David C]

Well I have had A2, allegedly from China which seemed very different.

David

 

[Jacob]

PS Hock blades are made for him in France and the only Hock thing about them is the logo. I could get some from the same place with the Grimsdale logo, I expect.

Not all of them. Hock FAQ

And why does it matter where they are made. I'm feeling some resistance, Renee...

It doesn't make any difference. It's just that there tends to be so much reverential name dropping around these discussions, as though a bit of magic might rub off!

Glad to read still being made right here in the backyard
Yee Haw!! (sounds of banjo music!)

 

[iNewbie]

Only when you mention it - and project it. Build a chair and we'll give 'em all a ducking... :roll:

 

[Racers]

Ron Hock out side his workshop in Fort Brag CA



Me and Ron in side his workshop in Fort Brag



He is a good chap, my dad has a second house in Fort Brag and Ron said if he ever need a hand give him a shout.

Pete

 

[David C]

Ron is a great man.

Fancy those early Krenov planes being equipped with cut down Stanley blades..... and yes we did that in my workshop in the 70's......

David

 

[J_SAMa]

I'm sure (just speculating) that there were demands for thicker blades in Bailey planes back in the days when power tools weren't so common. Hard to believe that they were never made...
But personally I think cap irons make more significant differences. All a better blade does is bettering the edge retention.

 

[Jacob]

I'm sure (just speculating) that there were demands for thicker blades in Bailey planes back in the days when power tools weren't so common. Hard to believe that they were never made...
But personally I think cap irons make more significant differences. All a better blade does is bettering the edge retention.

It seems nobody bothered with heavier irons - judging from the fact that they don't turn up in old (steel) planes and it is never mentioned in any of the texts. It's a very recent fashion and not everybody is convinced it is worth the bother even now.
If you look at the Bailey design blade as a blade assembly; blade, cap iron, lever cap, frog; then this is a heavy item as compared to the same thing in a wooden plane, and it is inserted into a heavy steel plane body. The weight is there - if that's what worries you! Add to this the convenience of sharpening a thin blade and it's a no brainer.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

A few thoughts: LN and LV planes work better than bog standard Records and Stanleys. If you haven't tried either, then you have to take mine and others words for that fact, but there it is. Now a sensible person with little money can buy a nice old Record for a few pounds and make it perform as well as the LN's etc, with a few fettling tricks and a new double iron. You still have a bargain plane, that might cost 1/5 or less of the premium ones but perform as well. Pretending they are just as good without the mods is just silly. If you cannot afford the blades, then fair enough, but the other fettling is free and will help a lot. There is no magic involved in better perforing planes, it is all quantifiable. A thicker blade is significantly stiffer. 3 mm is more than twice as stiff as 2 mm. A better cap iron adds more stiffness. You can improve the standard ones, but you cannot make them thicker, or stop them bending the blade. The standard blades will not hold their edges very long. You may not believe it, but a thicker blade will hold an edge longer, all being equal. But it is not equal, since a Hock iron etc, is better steel so double bubble.

Jacob, I have managed to find the Hock block blade, I'll send it to you Monday; I hope you will have an open mind about the A2 steel, after you have already come to a conclusion it doesn't make a difference! You might find it takes longer to get an edge on it, but I can't help the fact you doggedly stick to those messy oilstones. ( it is sharp already so give it a go, as is till it needs sharpening BTW)

Mike.

 

[Corneel]

I have to keep on hammering on this, sorry... The old Stanleys are very good planes allready. Yes LN is better, but how much do you need? When planing outrageous woods, like the Australian stuff or so, I'm sure you will appreciate the increase in quality. But you can plane most kinds of wood perfectly well with the standard stuff. Prewar planes were definitely better then the newer ones, but even the UK made planes are not rubish. The edge holding isn't as good as the expensive new stuff, so be it , you just have to sharpen a bit more often.

If you decide that you want to buy a replacement blade , that's fine. That is something else then condemning usefull kit on a public forum all the time.

 

[bugbear]

I'm sure (just speculating) that there were demands for thicker blades in Bailey planes back in the days when power tools weren't so common. Hard to believe that they were never made...
But personally I think cap irons make more significant differences. All a better blade does is bettering the edge retention.

It seems nobody bothered with heavier irons - judging from the fact that they don't turn up in old (steel) planes and it is never mentioned in any of the texts. It's a very recent fashion and not everybody is convinced it is worth the bother even now.
If you look at the Bailey design blade as a blade assembly; blade, cap iron, lever cap, frog; then this is a heavy item as compared to the same thing in a wooden plane, and it is inserted into a heavy steel plane body. The weight is there - if that's what worries you! Add to this the convenience of sharpening a thin blade and it's a no brainer.

The obvious comparison for a heavy assembly of blade, cap iron, lever cap and frog comes from a Norris or Spiers, planes known for their truly excellent performance. The blades are a full 3/16".

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

...
Jacob is misleading us again. His block plane can only have an E P of 45 degrees if he sharpens his blade at 25 degrees which he has stated to be difficult.

60 degree E P is an excellent angle for difficult home grown timbers. I frequently go to 70 degree E P for really intransigent, dense, interlocked exotics, like the wood from hell. Indian Laurel.....

What is it you are making with this Indian Laurel Dave? Is it a regular repeat order or something? WIP photos?