Why the Rip-fence is on the right of the blade

[OPJ]

I've always though the narrow bandsaw-thing had something to do with getting maximum width of cut without facing restrictions due to the depth (distance from blade to throat of bandsaw)? I could be wrong. But it is because of the throat that cross-cutting is done on the right - perhaps that's why they then put the fence on the left? I do find ripping easier on the bandsaw with the fence on the left though. But not with a circular saw.

There's a video on YouTube of a couple of American guys in a joinery shop trimming the width of an assembled staircase - and they certainly wouldn't be able to do that with the fence on the right!

I was told at college a couple of years ago that machines are designed for the average right-handed person and that, if you were left handed, you would have to get used to using your right. Look at radial arm saws for another example. I only ever use tha left handed if my workpiece is to the right of the blade - very rarely.

 

[OPJ]

I was looking through a couple of American woodworking books earlier and noticed that a few of them prefer to have the fence on the left when cutting a groove with the dreaded dado blade running unguarded. As for any standard ripping jobs though, they keep the fence on the right.

 

[Niki]

Hi Scrit
You wrote a lot so I will refer only to few point

I did not mean that the push stick will jump back to my face...I meant that because the push stick holds only a small area, it will be easier for the board to be lifted up and kicked back to my face.

I have this push stick (that is on your pic), it was supplied with the saw but I don't use it.
I prefer to use the one that I created...If you look again at the last picture, you will notice that I'm using it with two hands (but I had to take the pic...).

I had to cut some twisted Oak boars... a few times... and I used this push block as usual, the blade was screaming, shouting and yelling "I want to kickback" (in Polish of course ) but I continued to hold down strong with my both hands...the blade just stop rotating (my saw is 2500W), a push with my leg on the "Stop"switch ended the story.

My opinion is, that to start a kickback, the saw blade must have some minimum (but high) power to start to lift the board and I assume that if the board is heavy enough (or some force is exerted on it), the blade will not have enough power to start to lift the board.

By holding the board down with both hands, I'm actually doing what the "Power feeder" does and I think (and felt) that the blade has two ways; or to cut the board or to stop rotation...that happen to me a few times...if I was using the normal push stick on those cases, I have a strong feeling that I would get the board on my face...

I made the "feeder roller and the "hold-down rollers" not to protect but to prevent the kickback in case of operator error (i.e. my old hands). The hold-down rollers also push the board toward the fence)

Oh, just to clarify about the "automatic car", it's an Israeli kind of joke...in Israel most of the cars are with automatic gear-box and actually, you have to make special order for a manual gear so, all the "Automatic" guys are making fan out of the"manual" guys by asking; "Why you are moving this stick at the center all the time...are you mixing the gasoline or what...

Best regards and thank you for your professional replies
niki

 

[Jaco]

Are'nt the saws supposed to have covers over the blade to protect you?
:shock: :shock:

My hand passes over, but i am using push sticks and never cut with cover off.

 

[devonwoody]

Small point about the Triton fence on left, the workcentre has a plastic finger to push the timber against the fence which is useful.
The plastic finger could also if wanted be transferred together with the fence to opposite locations.
But it is handier for right handed persons to have the fence on the left with these extra precautions?

 

[Dave]

My opinion (for what it's worth) is simply that the right hand fence - for a right hander anyway - is the more natural configuration for safety and precision. It's easier to push smoothly and accurately with the right hand, and no problem to apply side pressure with the left hand (or should "hand" be "push stick" in both cases!) especially when cutting small pieces of wood.
For interest I tried standing the other side of the fence and simulated working both right and cack-handed, and I would not feel safe until after a lot of practice as both felt very strange and out of control. I should add that I am partially ambidextrous, so a very dominant right-hander may well have problems.

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Dave

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Neil

 

[Scrit]

I was looking through a couple of American woodworking books earlier and noticed that a few of them prefer to have the fence on the left when cutting a groove with the dreaded dado blade running unguarded. As for any standard ripping jobs though, they keep the fence on the right.

To my mind that seems to be just illogical. There is still a need to propel the timber through the blade whilst pushing it onto the fence and it just seems more logical to retain the same right-handed approach for both, especially if you are right handed. Modern European saws (i.e. 1970s onwards) tend to sidestep this issue by having a rip fence which can only be used on one side of the blade but which incorporates the all important high-low sliding rip fence plate, thus:

The fence illustrated is from a Wadkin SP130, but similar designs are to be found on Scheppach, Kity, Minimax, Rojek, etc. Such fences only work on the right side of the blade

Scrit

 

[Niki]

Dave

Welcome to the forum

You are correct, it's difficult if you are not use to it.

Just imagine that you drive all your life in UK (left side) and then have to drive in Europe on the right side, I think that it would take you some time to get used to the fact that you drive on the "wrong" side (it's only in the head).

My wife lived and drive most of her life in UK and Japan (both Lefties), she is driving already 7 on the right side and still from time to time she is "diverting" to the left...it's in the blood...

Scrit
On the Elektra-Beckum PK-255, I can locate the fence on either side of the blade.
The problem is that the blade is not located at the centre and for wider boards it's only the right side.

niki

 

[Anonymous]

Is it me (this point is aimed at other threads as well as this one) but when ever a pro explains certain points and best practices plus the reasons why for safety and ease of operation and that they do this 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year, no one really takes a lot of notice because they have done it their way. Do you really think that there could be a conspiracy between table / panel saw manufacturers to make the fence on the wrong side. Or maybe they never thought about pulling the work through.

 

[Niki]

I do consider and appreciate all the safety tips that I get from professionals and especially those given us by Scrit.

On the other hand, there are some things that are not "given on mount Sinai" and can be done either way.

For example, the British "invented" the driving on the left side of the road but most of the world is driving on the right side.......So, which way is the "correct and safe" way...the British will claim "Of course the left side my dear"...and the majority of the world will say "what's the question, of course the Right side"....

When you are changing gears with your left hand, you steer the car with the right hand...is that safe...
When I'm changing gears with my right hand I steer the car with my left hand...Is that safe...

But let me give you an example from my X job
In the airplane there are two pilots, The Captain is sitting always on the left seat and the First Officer (F/O), always on the right seat.

When the Captain is flying the airplane, he holds the Flight controls with his left hand and the engines Thrust levers with his right hand but...
When the F/O is flying the airplane, he holds the flight controls with his Right hand and the Thrust levers with his Left hand...exactly the opposite of the Captain.

Every one of the pilots have to think and react in different way for the same action or result...so, which way is safer...
The answer is; both are safe, it depends how you think and how you are used...

When two Captains are sitting in the cockpit, always the left seat Captain is flying the aircraft.
When the other Captain has to fly, they are changing seats because Captains are used (and think that way) to fly the aircraft from the left seat unless it is an emergency (incapacitation of the other captain).

When the F/O becomes to be a Captain, he has to change his habits and the way he thinks and fly from the left seat and there is no problem of "Right handed" or "Left handed".

Same with me, for 10 years I was working with left fence (without any incident/accident) and I'm used to it and think "safety" at that way. Now that I changed to right fence I don't have any problem but personally I feel better with left fence.

niki

 

[Loz_S]

For example, the British "invented" the driving on the left side of the road but most of the world is driving on the right side.......So, which way is the "correct and safe" way...the British will claim "Of course the left side my dear"...and the majority of the world will say "what's the question, of course the Right side"....

When you are changing gears with your left hand, you steer the car with the right hand...is that safe...
When I'm changing gears with my right hand I steer the car with my left hand...Is that safe...

This is totally OT but, ironically, you have answered your own question on this point! Statistically, driving on the left IS safer than driving on the right. Due in part to "righthandidness" but also due to the use of the "give way to the right" law which applies equally to both LHD and RHD countries even though there are obvious safety issues. (e.g. LHD drivers line of sight passes over passenger; right hand junctions directly adjoin roadway of approaching LHD traffic etc, etc.)

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Niki,

That analogy with flying is a good one. My son, Scott, is currently training to be a commercial pilot and it has demonstrated to me that flying a plane requires you to take multi-tasking to a whole new level :shock: Here's a picture of me in one of the planes he has used for training

As you know, one of the things pilots have to do is to speak to the air traffic controllers, write down what they are being told and fly the plane at the same time :shock: You will see in the picture that the button to operate the radio is on the left-hand side of the control column. Finding a way of doing all these things (including operating the radio, holding the pencil and balancing the pad on your lap, looking where you are going and flying the plane) at the same time is very difficult. One of the big issues in all this is whether the pilot is left or right-handed. I don't know what the figures are, but most of the pilots my son has trained with are left-handed and there would appear to be a higher proportion of left-handed pilots than right-handed ones. I agree with you, sometimes you just have to find a way of doing all these things that works for you. Thankfully, flying is a highly disciplined activity with lots of built-in safety procedures. Pity woodworking is not so disciplined

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Scrit]

For example, the British "invented" the driving on the left side of the road but most of the world is driving on the right side.......

OK, so let's forget India, Pakistan, much of Africa, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Indonesia, Bangladesh, etc - or about 2 billion people, in other words roughly 1/3 of the driving population of the globe (estimated at 6 billion in total) .......

......and even the Swedes and Burmese used to drive on the left you know. :wink: There are some interesting "factiods" about left hand versus right hand here.

Trying to get back on topic here :roll:

So, which way is the "correct and safe" way...

This is not a case of British nimbyism, Niki (NIMBY = not in my back yard for our non-Brit readers :lol: ). In the case of a table saw if you are right-handed (that's between 85 and 93% of the population) "correct and safest way" is pushing the work against a short position rip fence located to the right of the blade with the left hand (and long push stick, as appropriate) and using the right hand (again with a long push stick at the end of the cut) to propel the work through the blade. The blade should be provided with a riving knife or splitter, adjusted appropriately, and an adequate crown guard which should be fitted with an additional nose guard if a significant amount of blade leading edge will be exposed during the cut.

With apologies to any pilots here I'd say the unlike pulling a throttle control lever where the lever will only rotate in a single fixed plane around a fixed pivot point, propelling a piece of timber through a rip saw can often require more precise muscle control and co-ordination as pressure has to be applied in three planes, sideways and downwards from the left hand and forwards with any directional correction from the right hand. For a right handed person who will probably have significantly better control/co-ordination of the right hand it makes more sense to use the right hand to push the workpiece and control the cut. Trying to pull work into a rip fence with one hand whilst pushing with the other leads me to suspect that one arm will potentially cross the path of the saw blade at some point and I can see additional co-ordination issues if trying to use one arm to pull whilst the other pushes. For a left handed persion I imagine that using a mirror image of the standard right-hand set-up would probably be more comfortable, but on the vast majority of saws this is simply not possible as the saw blade positioning and fence design preclude this.

All modern (i.e. postwar) table saws I've come across are designed for this (right-handed) mode of operation with a very few, generally those with poorer or hobby quality rip fences, capable of accommodating left hand ripping. True panel saws (as opposed to table saws with sliding tables) with sliding carraiges are designed solely for right handed operator use, without exception. Not good news for "lefties", I'm afraid, but there it is.

Scrit

 

[Scrit]

Thankfully, flying is a highly disciplined activity with lots of built-in safety procedures. Pity woodworking is not so disciplined

I'm inclined to disagree with that to an extent. I feel what differs is the lack of training amongst hobby woodworkers and the lack of discipline in many smaller shops.

If you go to college or are apprenticed as a woodworker/wood machinist then you should be taught how to do things safely and how to assess risk to an extent. Whether or not you continue to do things correctly (safely) is often down to the presence or lack of a workplace safety ethic. In larger firms this ethic is often maintained under scrutiny of some form of workplace safety/training manager, the trades unions (looking after the wellbeing of their members) and to an extent by fear of prosecution of the company in the event of a serious accident. Good employers realise that it costs money to have members of staff off with injuries, so there really is a "safety premium" to safe working practice. In many smaller firms there tends to be a more laissez-faire approach to safety which is often "encouraged" by a lack of knowledge of the statutory requirements for safe working and in some cases sheer bloody-mindedness towards the rules, often expressed in vitriol directed at the so-called "nanny state". This often translates into peer pressure to work the way "we've always done" despite that way of working being plainly unsafe in some cases. Because smaller businesses are often set-up and run by tradesmen rather than safety managers or accountants there is much less understanding of the concept of a "safety premium" in the workplace and the possible advantages it can bring.

I feel that in the larger establishments that discipline is good and that their safety records reflect this, whilst in the smaller places safety and discipline are often patchy. Surely this is little different to the way that any other sector, including airlines, operates? Perhaps the biggest difference is that to fly an aircraft you need to obtain a licence - the same is not true of operating any form of woodworking machinery. And no that doesn't mean I'm in favour of a table saw driving licence......

Scrit

 

[Paul Chapman]

Perhaps the biggest difference is that to fly an aircraft you need to obtain a licence

And it doesn't end there - pilots are regularly re-tested. Also, when things go wrong with pilots, or planes, or air traffic controllers, or procedures the incidents are properly investigated and measures are put in place to help prevent them happening again.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Gill]

Until I read this thread I hadn't given much thought to the 'handedness' of a table saw. Yet there's no doubt my Kity 419 is very much designed for right handers, largely because the on/off switch is positioned to the left of the saw blade. If you were to try to operate the saw with the fence to the left of the blade, you would have to put yourself bodily in line with the turning blade - and that's something I just won't do.

In fact, I rarely cut wood on my saw in such a way that I have to use the fence. Perhaps it's because I'm left handed that I find it easier to use the sliding carriage on the left hand side of the saw instead.

Gill

 

[Scrit]

Also, when things go wrong..... .....procedures the incidents are properly investigated and measures are put in place to help prevent them happening again.

To a lesser extent that's true with woodworking machinery. Which is why we now have braking, limiter tooling, riving knives, crown guards, short-position rip fences, push sticks, etc all mandated and/or included in training. It just takes a little longer with woodworking - but then you're hardly likely to crash land a Wadkin table saw on Wembley stadium on Cup Final afternoon, are you? :lol:

Scrit

 

[Paul Chapman]

but then you're hardly likely to crash land a Wadkin table saw on Wembley stadium on Cup Final afternoon, are you? :lol:

Depends how bad the kick back is.... :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

I once had 15 hours flying experience in a cessna 172, how would you like it if I told you that your explaination on how to fly an areoplane was not how I do it. Maybe even with all your training you arn't really flying it properly, when I flew I didn't do it by your method and yet I still didn't crash therefore my method is better than yours.