Why spend more?

[kenneth cooke]

In another thread

...I can see that a £200 LN plane will outperform (and be better value than) a £20 Anant...

and it got me thinking,

will it? really? and by a factor of 10? surely much of the ability of a tool is down to the way it's being set up or used? I'm sure I could do as bad a job with a LN plane with a blunt, badly set, plane as I could with a B&Q special in the same state? does it then follow that I could do as good a job if the planes were both well set up?

If the adage "only a bad worker blames his tools" is correct then are all proponents of high quality tools like LN bad workers? (please please please don't shoot me) :lol: :lol:

It is a fair comment but I work on the adage that if I buy the best I can afford I cannot blame the tools it has to be me

 

[TheTiddles]

A bad workman may blame his tools but so does a good one!

Have you ever heard someone say "I could do this just as easily with two pieces of flint and a stick"?

Further, just because tools are old does not mean they are any good, I think this a lot seeing some of you people cleaning up old planes, but anyway... I had two grandfathers, quite a common thing apparently, both had tools, one was a commercial grower the other a manager general for a bank, which one do you think had the decent tools? I'm still using them today and several of them he inherited from his parents, my smoothing plane is at least 100 years old, does need a new blade now admittedly... The cheap old tools are just as crappy as the cheap new ones, only dirtier.

The analogy with cars just isn't valid, no matter how much you pay for a car, one mistake on the motorway and it's history, cars are a disposable item, just a very expensive one. Good tools are an investment for you, your children and maybe theirs too*.

Aidan

*not including sandpaper

 

[bugbear]

It is a fair comment but I work on the adage that if I buy the best I can afford I cannot blame the tools it has to be me

I have a Hammond C3 and Leslie L122 and yet (strangely) I still don't sound like Keith Emerson :-(

But I do sound better on the C3 than on anything else

BugBear

 

[Admiral]

Ed and Moose

Had I been given (or, perhaps, heeded - can't remember) such advice, I'd probably have a goodly selection of old tools, with a select few modern makers' items (instead of the other way around) and have been up and running, acquiring skills, quicker and cheaper than I did.
Steve

Early on, I took someone's sage advice and stuck with buying older Stanleys and an occasional Millers Falls handtool, mostly planes and spokeshaves with the occasional drill, but here in the US older Stanley planes abound in the 3, 4 and 5 sizes, less frequently 6s and 7s, and less so 8s 2s and of course #1s. I'm still short a 2 and an 8 (neither of which I really need anyway), and most are Type 11 and 16, with a few Type 9s in the mix; but my point is that it took me 15 years or so to get quality users together, and perhaps twice the number of bench planes than I actually kept as I upgraded. I have sold off the surplus, to fund the purchase of LV and LN versions of more exotic planes made by Stanley, simply because the collectors have driven up their price, such as the bevel up jack and smoother, and other planes that have been improved in design (e.g., LV's version of a 71), and LNs 98 and 99, and their beader (principally because I had a hard time finding the correct fences). I find the mix works for me, and I am the better for the process as I learned how to tune and properly use bench planes, and how to sharpen irons.

I never felt the need to buy high end chisels, as many of the old Witherbys one finds here in the states were made with fine steel, and I've picked up a smattering of Bergs, Stanley 750s, and a few English and German chisels such that my chisel "kit" (as y'all say) is rather complete, including a few duplicate sized Witherbys that I ground into right and left skew chisels; I'm still looking for a vintage corner chisel...

So a combination of old and new seems to be my path, and its worked for me so far.

RN

 

[Tierney]

I'm still undecided; but as I'm not a pro it may take me several years to decide.

I have some lie-nielsen planes and do think they are worth the money; but, I've learned a lot from tuning up a Stanley No. 4 that was bought new five years ago. I also use some very cheap stanley chisels and I don't see the point in upgrading yet. I'm not impressed with a new stanley 92 shoulder plane, and cannot summon up the motivation to do something about it.

For a novice, I think you should spend time learning how to use and tune a few basic tools (David Charlesworth's books are a good start); before forking out on expensive tools.

DT