Why is the UK Timber Yards Sooo messed up?

[sitefive]

I do not have trouble finding a customers for the stuff I'm making,quite the opposite have too much work I can Handle..
However can anyone aware me why is the Whole Timber selling industry so messed up over here and it's so hard to source decent material for decent prices?

For the past 2months I have probably inquired with about 25-30 places which sell timber and have visited and bought stuff from like 7
To sum it all up
-20% of the places are run by total cheating morons which I would not visit ever again
-30% sell timber that is just of terrible quality, and they even have the audacity to tell me that you can polish out the blue mould out of the wood and it's all fine, wuuuut?
50% seem to just sell Treated waterlogged fencing stuff,and when you ask if you got any untreated in quite normal regular sizes they just look at you like you are stupid and don't know what you are asking to them #-o
and 95% of them just overcharge soo much that it's not even funny, It's already super expensive to pay £300 per cubic metre of construction quality pine however that's probably the lowest price you will get and I'm fine with that, however most have the courage to ask £700+ per cube of just regular sawn pine.

Can anyone aware me How exactly can you even find a good supplier over here?

 

[marcros]

I do not have trouble finding a customers for the stuff I'm making,quite the opposite have too much work I can Handle..
However can anyone aware me why is the Whole Timber selling industry so messed up over here and it's so hard to source decent material for decent prices?

For the past 2months I have probably inquired with about 25-30 places which sell timber and have visited and bought stuff from like 7
To sum it all up
-20% of the places are run by total cheating morons which I would not visit ever again
-30% sell timber that is just of terrible quality, and they even have the audacity to tell me that you can polish out the blue mould out of the wood and it's all fine, wuuuut?
50% seem to just sell Treated waterlogged fencing stuff,and when you ask if you got any untreated in quite normal regular sizes they just look at you like you are stupid and don't know what you are asking to them #-o
and 95% of them just overcharge soo much that it's not even funny, It's already super expensive to pay £300 per cubic metre of construction quality pine however that's probably the lowest price you will get and I'm fine with that, however most have the courage to ask £700+ per cube of just regular sawn pine.

Can anyone aware me How exactly can you even find a good supplier over here?

is there a common denominator in all of this. you seem to have had more problems with what you have bought in the last month or so that i have seen from any other single member, even those that have been posting for 5 years. Even the members who believe that paypal and eBay are a government conspiracy to steal money from us all haven't racked up more than a couple of bad experiences.

 

[sitefive]

Actually there are 2 good places I know of In Leeds, However to do 100+100mile trip everytime is exhausting and takes up all day.
Here in Up north I'm yet to find anything decent So you might be lucky enough to not have this problem.

I guess they just suck it up and are ok with being ripped off when just buying a few sticks to make a pictureframe? However when going through a lot of timber it quickly adds up to a point it isn't profitable anymore nor worth your time.

 

[RobinBHM]

There are very few softwood specialists in the UK.

There is very little margin on softwood and timber retail merchants of with a few branches or shed type manufacturers will import their own.

Its not a case of being ripped off, you are asking local merchants for a specific grade which they dont have. You would need to go to a major importer and specify the exact grade you require, but you would probably need a big order to do that.

I used to work for a very large pine furniture manufacturers back when it was in fashion. They imported their own timber and I know that log ponding and blue stain was a problem and they had to specify logs without it.

Maybe try Brooks brothers or these people:

http://www.servicetimber.com/

 

[doctor Bob]

What are you classing as a lot of timber?

 

[sitefive]

Thanks Robin, have contacted them to see what's up, However for some reason I have seen other places with way better offers than I can get here, and all of them are based around Leeds. Yet none around where I live.

And lol theres A LOT of profit even in softwood, the biggest expense is shipping them, pine Logs gets bought for right around 45-60 euros per Cubic metre depending on thickness, pretty much any sawmill in eastern europe will process them for another 20-25euros per cube in bulk. that comes to around 100euros per cube Total if you count in all the off-cuts which gets processed anyway in heating pellets.

Really you think there's so little profit to be made when you can get the stuff for £70/per cube ship it to UK and than sell it for £400?

 

[RobinBHM]

Softwood isnt my thing but I would think at least 10 cubic metres would be needed to get the specification and price.

If I buy pack rates for hardwood that is likely to an order of 3 cubic metres or so and pricing comes down by 25% or so.

I used to buy softwood from Timbmet but they stopped selling it as the value of timber wasnt worth the transport costs.

What sort of softwood are you talking about? Spruce or redwood?

earlier in the year I paid £268/metre3 for 5ths 75 x 100 £350 for unsorted and £523 for unsorted sideboards in 25 x 175 section (ex vat). That was all for a small qty of less than a metre3

buying at £70 and selling at £400 probably only yields a small net profit, a lot of costs are transport etc

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

Really you think there's so little profit to be made when you can get the stuff for £70/per cube ship it to UK and than sell it for £400?

Why don't you import it yourself then? You seem to have the knowledge and know where to get it. Cut out the middleman if you think they're ripping you off.

 

[Mark-numbers]

How much is a lot? 20k a month? 10k? 30k?

 

[sitefive]

How much is a lot? 20k a month? 10k? 30k?

A lot for 1 person to handle and use up
Going through ~3 cubic m a month,all in different sizes. However have nowhere to store much at the same time,hence frequent trips hunting for new timber

 

[Mark-numbers]

James E smith in Birmingham are very good with S/W, unsure of where they deliver to.

 

[xraymtb]

Is this not much the same complaint you posted about in July? Reality is low volume users in any market get a poor deal, and even more so as distance from the source increases and overheads go up due to national factors (tax, minimum wages etc.).

 

[skipdiver]

The softwood timber where i buy is generally fairly good but it seems to go up in price by the week, much like everything nowadays, except wages.

 

[lurker]

If you are as gobby at the yards as you are here, then their prices are their way of telling you not to come back bothering them.
I find it very hard to believe that someone who has only owned a hand plane for 3 months could actually utilise a cube of timber.
I buy very little wood but when I do I go to the same small none chain place place. I chat with them, I pay cash which I doubt goes through the till. they all say hello when I visit.
I needed some door frame kits a few weeks ago cost me 15 each where wickes were selling for £35 and wickes were as bent as hell.

 

[blackrodd]

If you are as gobby at the yards as you are here, then their prices are their way of telling you not to come back bothering them.
I find it very hard to believe that someone who has only owned a hand plane for 3 months could actually utilise a cube of timber.
I buy very little wood but when I do I go to the same small none chain place place. I chat with them, I pay cash which I doubt goes through the till. they all say hello when I visit.
I needed some door frame kits a few weeks ago cost me 15 each where wickes were selling for £35 and wickes were as bent as hell.

I tend to get my stuff at Jewsons and find the lining and stops inside the packs are mostly the dreaded Western White Spruce, hard as iron, knots like shrapnel and frequently bent, twisted or both.
I book them out and before leaving the yard, open the pack in the van and change them right away when needed.
They're very good about it in the yard.
B&Q and Wickes actually sell this nasty stuff to the public and unsuspecting DIYers!
Regards Rodders

 

[BearTricks]

Sitefive I'm wondering if English is your first language. Forgive me if I'm wrong but your posting style suggests otherwise.

The reason that I ask is because, unfortunately, timber yards are often run and staffed by salt of the earth, working class types who would probably tend towards a conservative stance on immigration. It's established that the wrong pair of jeans and the wrong amount of dirt under your fingernails can be a deciding factor in how much you'll be charged, I can imagine that something as politically charged as being foreign might be an issue.

I say this as a poor Northerner from a long line of sooty faced labourers, engineers etc. So nothing (much) against them.

Of course ignore me if I've got the wrong end of the stick.

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk

 

[sitefive]

Beartricks you are correct
However I haven't faced any discrimination against me whatsoever not even once in this country..that's not really the problem..

The problem I think is that 95% or even more people in this country are totally useless at DIY and don't do anything themselves, so there's simply not much demand for this stuff, large companies just import their own stuff or process the logs to their exact needs. If you are low volume buyer and don't have the £ to do exactly that you are Doomed.
I have been trying to source a place which sells 3x3 and 4x4 for some while(actually few months) However everyone just stock those sizes as treated fence posts- and when you ask anyone if they have untreated you get looks like you are the weirdo and get asked questions why would I even need such thing...mod edit Unbelievable.

 

[sitefive]

Have called up every place within 30miles ( like 35+ different places) and If anyone have those ''odd'' sizes you are being charged just insane amounts like some £800 per cube for regular pine posts,that only confirms what I was thinking- that there's not much demand for anything which isn't just regular fencing material or construction stuff.
Btw whats up with all these terrible looking fences all over? everyone seems to have one, totally discolored, broken and just nasty looking things...

Just today Finally I thought I Had found a place which sells just a regular plain untreated sawn 3x3 at £400 per cube , called the guy 2 times to confirm that they are untreated ,took an hour trip , wasted mod edit loads of petrol to go pick them up, what was the outcome? You guessed of course they had 3x3 but as treated fence posts.... #-o And he even asked why would I even need untreated ones and again looked at me like I'm a weirdo because everyone just gets the treated stuff for their glorious fences.

 

[Jacob]

If it's softwood you want to buy "unsorted" swedish redwood from a yard which doesn't let you select i.e. it comes off the pile as per grade.
4 x 4 is a common size for newel posts and any good softwood supplier should have it in good grades. I got some from Snows recently and is was very good and straight in long lengths.
3x 3 you'd probably have to buy 6x3 and rip it. PS or better would be to rip 10 x 3 then you get the full size 3x3 an the pith is in the middle of the middle bit.
Some sizes here including 4 x 4 and 3 X 3. They do a lot more. http://www.snowstimber.com/product-rang ... -softwood/

 

[artie]

Just today Finally I thought I Had found a place which sells just a regular plain untreated sawn 3x3 at £400 per cube , called the guy 2 times to confirm that they are untreated ,took an hour trip , wasted $hitloads of petrol to go pick them up, what was the outcome? You guessed of course they had 3x3 but as treated fence posts.... #-o And he even asked why would I even need untreated ones and again looked at me like I'm a weirdo because everyone just gets the treated stuff for their glorious fences.

You could find out where he gets the treated 3 by3s or 4 by 4s and get some off them before they are treated or find a big operator and piggy back on his order, give him a few pounds for his trouble. I used to supply a guy who did a few projects at home and couldn't get trade price.