Who says Veritas Planes look Utilitarian?

[Racers]

Hi,

A good compas plane would be a good thing, I made one from a coffin smoother to do the backs of my chairs by curving the sole, but it only fits one radius.


Pete

 

[Neil]

I wouldn't hold your breath for a compass plane - from another thread a long time ago where Rob was teasing us about the forthcoming list of planes again...:

I hope a compass plane is on it!

Cheers,
Neil

That's the list I see when I have nightmares..... :lol:

Also Rob listed the prices of the next 6 or so planes a few weeks ago, and they were all well below the sort of price he would have to charge for a compass plane

Cheers,
Neil

 

[tnimble]

Having a good compass plane based on the victor design made again would be a good thing. Good antique compass planes are very hard to find, and often at high price.

 

[Smudger]

I agree that it's probably a tool that you wouldn't use very often but when you need one, you need one.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

A very neat summation of The Slope!

Do I really NEED 3 Record 04s?

 

[Paul Chapman]

Do I really NEED 3 Record 04s?

What a silly question :roll: Of course you do :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[marcus]

Yes a compass plane would be nice wouldn't it! My ( slightly unrealistic!) wish list for new Veritas planes also includes:

• 
  - Tongue and groove plane with a mouth, and the same heft as the skew rebate (which incidentally arrived this morning - i think I'm in love )
  
  - Combination plane (for mouldings, to keep it simple and usable) in which each cutter has a little matching sole you attach to the plane body in front of it, so that you get a proper mouth for them all. Can't you just see the wooden box with all those cutters and soles lined up in it . I would want it to include cutters for hollow and rounds, cove, slitting, ovolo, beads and flutes.
  
  - A set of dado planes (or a combination one with replaceable soles as above)
  
  - A dovetail plane
  
  - something to cut rebates on curves (not totally sure how this would work!)
  
  - something else to put grooves on the inside of curves (i.e grooves for panels on frames) (not sure how this would work either....)

Go on Rob - I dare you......

Cheers

Marcus

 

[woodbloke]

At the risk of having cyberbricks lobbed in my direction, a compass plane would be a pleasant thing to own in the same way the new plough and skew rebate are...but you don't really need them. If you have a decent 'leccy router then everything that these three planes will cut can be done with a selection of router bits costing a few £'s. Curved work is dead easy to do with a template and a top or bottom bearing cutter(s) The subtle curves on the stand of my Elm Cabinet II recently finished were all done using a template and router...on the other hand, if you want to spend hundreds and hundreds of pounds.... Depends really on how you like to work. Should funds permit, I'd like to have a plough and the new skew, but it may not happen any time soon
OK...time to exit :wink: - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Just to throw in a different point of view - in my experience, the finish from a well-honed plane blade is usually far superior to that from a router cutter. Second, there are no on-going running costs with a plane - router cutters, on the other hand, are quite expensive and need sharpening and replacing, so the router probably costs more in the long-term.

Having said that, most of us have the planes and the routers.......it's called The Slope :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[tnimble]

Yes a compass plane would be nice wouldn't it! My ( slightly unrealistic!) wish list for new Veritas planes also includes:

• 
  - Combination plane (for mouldings, to keep it simple and usable) in which each cutter has a little matching sole you attach to the plane body in front of it, so that you get a proper mouth for them all. Can't you just see the wooden box with all those cutters and soles lined up in it . I would want it to include cutters for hollow and rounds, cove, slitting, ovolo, beads and flutes.
  
  - A set of dado planes (or a combination one with replaceable soles as above)

• 
  
  Bridge City Tool Works do both of these HP-6 & HP-6V2. They are very excellent, well made tools, out performing all of the original Siegley, Stanley and Record models. And the good news theyre cheap (relative for BCT tools). More profiles are in the line.
  
  The Stanleys and Records also can be transformed into inlay combination planes with an inley kit matching the cutters. But they still perform worse than the BCT Multi-Plane.
  
  

  At the risk of having cyberbricks lobbed in my direction, a compass plane would be a pleasant thing to own in the same way the new plough and skew rebate are...but you don't really need them. If you have a decent 'leccy router then everything that these three planes will cut can be done with a selection of router bits costing a few £'s. Curved work is dead easy to do with a template and a top or bottom bearing cutter(s)

  
  Catch these you ...
  
  
  
  That is unless you want to spend the extra time of cleaning up, you can have trouble with chip out and of course the pice may be the large of heavy to safely be handled on the router table, and using the router free hand it can also to unsafe due to size of the bit needed. Or simply because the stock is too thick for any router bit.

 

[woodbloke]

Paul Chapman wrote:

Just to throw in a different point of view - in my experience, the finish from a well-honed plane blade is usually far superior to that from a router cutter. Second, there are no on-going running costs with a plane - router cutters, on the other hand, are quite expensive and need sharpening and replacing, so the router probably costs more in the long-term.

Having said that, most of us have the planes and the routers.......it's called The Slope

Paul - I've not used any of these new up-market speciast planes so can't comment on the finish left staight from the edge, but in my experience with the older stuff (Record 778 for example) I always had to sand in the surface to get it acceptabe...which is what you need to do with a router cut surface. A router cutter costs about a fiver or so from Axminster (and can be resharpened) and will last me about a year, compared to approx £250ish for a plough plane (say) that I'll use just for drawer bottom slips. £250 or £5?.. :-k

But I still want/need/covet/desire one of each ...(planes that is)

Laura wrote:

That is unless you want to spend the extra time of cleaning up, you can have trouble with chip out and of course the pice may be the large of heavy to safely be handled on the router table, and using the router free hand it can also to unsafe due to size of the bit needed. Or simply because the stock is too thick for any router bit.

If the piece is too large to use safely on the table then it can be machined on the bench with a hand held router...all depends how you build the jig to do it and how the router is configured :wink: :wink: A decent depth of cut can be achieved using top and bottom bearing cutters, sometimes in combination with a bottom bearing cutter used in the router table (bearing pokes out the top of the table as it's used upside down)

End of the jour though, it all depends on how we like to work. In the two professional 'shops that I worked in, if I specified to the boss that I wanted a £250 plough plane rather than a £5 router bit there would have been a raised eyebrow or twelve and much sucking of the teeth before the inevitable expletives came my way...thanks for the bricks, appreciated :lol: :lol: - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Paul - I've not used any of these new up-market speciast planes so can't comment on the finish left staight from the edge, but in my experience with the older stuff (Record 778 for example) I always had to sand in the surface to get it acceptabe...which is what you need to do with a router cut surface.

Pity I had to give the skew rebate back before our winter mini-bash last Saturday because I would have brought it down for you to try out. I think you would have been pleasantly surprised at the finish it gave - the old Record #778 is no comparison (in several respects).

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[tnimble]

A decent depth of cut can be achieved using top and bottom bearing cutters, sometimes in combination with a bottom bearing cutter used in the router table (bearing pokes out the top of the table as it's used upside down)

Please explain how that would work, for instance if I was to smooth and clean up the side of a Horta curve shaped cabinet side 24" wide and 47" high, after hogging most material with saws, scrub plane etc?

 

[woodbloke]

Paul - I've not used any of these new up-market speciast planes so can't comment on the finish left staight from the edge, but in my experience with the older stuff (Record 778 for example) I always had to sand in the surface to get it acceptabe...which is what you need to do with a router cut surface.

Pity I had to give the skew rebate back before our winter mini-bash last Saturday because I would have brought it down for you to try out. I think you would have been pleasantly surprised at the finish it gave - the old Record #778 is no comparison (in several respects).

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Paul - agreed, it's a shame that you had to give that one back as I'd have liked to have a little play with it last Saturday. Still, look on the bright side...if you don't get socks for Christmas..... :lol: :lol: - Rob

 

[woodbloke]

A decent depth of cut can be achieved using top and bottom bearing cutters, sometimes in combination with a bottom bearing cutter used in the router table (bearing pokes out the top of the table as it's used upside down)

Please explain how that would work, for instance if I was to smooth and clean up the side of a Horta curve shaped cabinet side 24" wide and 47" high, after hogging most material with saws, scrub plane etc?

Laura - I have no idea what a Horta cabinet is...pics? - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Still, look on the bright side...if you don't get socks for Christmas..... :lol: :lol:

It will be socks - DAMHIKT

Cheers :ho2

Paul

 

[tnimble]

Laura - I have no idea what a Horta cabinet is...pics? - Rob

Its one of the basic shapes in the Belgium and Frnch Art Niveau substyles.

Like the curves in this design: (those of the lamp arms, some of the decorative wall painting, and those of the stairs baluster / styles whatshouldtheybecalleds)

(Sorrie I could not find a picture of furniture in this style. Somehow people take photographs of only buildings and almost never of furniture)

Anyhow the type of curve doesn't matter, only the size of the piece the curve is applied to.

 

[woodbloke]

Can't see the pics at the moment, but will have a look later on - Rob

 

[Tom K]

I think Laura is refering to the work of Victor Horta a Belgian (I think) exponent of "Art Nouveau" I thought this was called paling stijl in the low countries our what we sometimes call eel style.

Regards Tom

 

[woodbloke]

Laura - I have no idea what a Horta cabinet is...pics? - Rob

Its one of the basic shapes in the Belgium and Frnch Art Niveau substyles.

Like the curves in this design: (those of the lamp arms, some of the decorative wall painting, and those of the stairs baluster / styles whatshouldtheybecalleds)

(Sorrie I could not find a picture of furniture in this style. Somehow people take photographs of only buildings and almost never of furniture)

Anyhow the type of curve doesn't matter, only the size of the piece the curve is applied to.

Clearly the stuff in that pic is fairly up-market joinery work. If you're refereing to the handrails that curve in both planes, I don't know how they're made, but I suspect a spindle moulder might be involved somewhere. A compass plane can only be used effectively if the curve is uniform, ie a set radius. On a piece of furniture where the curve has a compound radius (two or more different ones) then you can't (as far as I'm aware) use a compass plane - Rob

 

[tnimble]

I think Laura is refering to the work of Victor Horta a Belgian (I think) exponent of "Art Nouveau" I thought this was called paling stijl in the low countries our what we sometimes call eel style.

Regards Tom

Indeed the main figure in this style is the Belgium architect and designer Victor Horta. The main shape is reffered to as zweepslag. The style itself as Horta as in Chipendale etceteral are named after the designer considred as most influential. Never heard it refered to as paling (altough I can understand the shape can be tough as of that of a swimming eal (eal = paling))

But back to the initial question. How would one use a router and template of any kind instead of an adjustable compass plane, a spokeshave and some card scrapers?

(I know its not perfect, just a quick sketchup)