Which Veritas plane do I buy?

[Cheshirechappie]

I don't know why Clifton persevered with the 3-in-1 shoulder plane. For years it just eroded their reputation as there was such a high percentage of duds.

Really? That's a new one on me. Mines one of the earlier 3-in-1s, and it's a good one.

There was a problem with some of the early bench planes. Clifton had made some commitments to supply in their very early years, particularly to sellers in the US. Just after that, the foundry they were using went into receivership, taking their pattern equipment with them. They had to replace the patterns and find another supplier in a very great hurry, and the first batch of castings were sub-standard. Faced with the choice of either letting down their US stockists or making the best they could of the castings they had, they chose the latter, and a bad review or two fron US woodworking journalists cost them dear for over a decade after they'd resolved the quality issues with their casting suppliers.

Don't know if the shoulder planes were caught up in the same foundry collapse problem, but maybe they were.

Apologies to Bodger for diverting the thread, but I did want to say that on the basis of MY experience, Clifton shoulder planes are good. I also recall an article in F&C comparing top-end shoulder planes, and the Cliftons came out very creditably. Some people just seem to have a downer on them for some reason, which is a bit of a shame.

 

[Saer Llongau]

I'd love a Veritas No3 and would gladly pay $240 for it. A No3 is such a useful size. It's lighter which means it's easier to use and manoeuvre and because it's narrower you have less resistance. Combine this with the excellent Veritas adjustment and you have my dream plane.

 

[AndyT]

The quality of Clifton isn't what the OP wants to know about, unless someone wants to suggest that some models of Clifton planes are even better value than a Veritas at dollar price. I know exports can sometimes be cheaper than domestic sales, but I'd be surprised if Cliftons are cheaper across the Atlantic.

Another thought is that there are some Veritas lines which aren't offered over here at all. I can't think of examples as I haven't spent hours studying the websites/catalogues but if the OP fancies something not normally available via Brimarc that could be worthwhile.

One more idea - I was in Bristol Design yesterday, and the discussion turned to router planes and the recent surge in prices for old Stanley or Record models, making an imported Veritas look a reasonable option. At N American price, it could be well worth getting, and wouldn't weigh as much as a big plane.

 

[Bodgers]

The quality of Clifton isn't what the OP wants to know about, unless someone wants to suggest that some models of Clifton planes are even better value than a Veritas at dollar price. I know exports can sometimes be cheaper than domestic sales, but I'd be surprised if Cliftons are cheaper across the Atlantic.

Another thought is that there are some Veritas lines which aren't offered over here at all. I can't think of examples as I haven't spent hours studying the websites/catalogues but if the OP fancies something not normally available via Brimarc that could be worthwhile.

One more idea - I was in Bristol Design yesterday, and the discussion turned to router planes and the recent surge in prices for old Stanley or Record models, making an imported Veritas look a reasonable option. At N American price, it could be well worth getting, and wouldn't weigh as much as a big plane.

Interesting.

The Veritas shooting plane is actually out of stock and on back order in Axminster at least.

Good idea on the router plane...I will have a look.

 

[Glynne]

"The Veritas shooting plane is actually out of stock and on back order in Axminster at least."

I did say it was brilliant

 

[D_W]

Don't know whether it's conversion related or not, but the shooting plane ex-vat is cheaper over there by a pretty substantial amount. Not sure why that is, but it's enough cheaper that it would be the same price with international shipping as it would be to buy it here on a free shipping promotion.

Presume that may be tied to the Canadian dollar somehow, which is weak against the US dollar right now. The pound is strong against the dollar, though. No real clue.

Clifton availability can be spotty over here, as can AI chisels (which is a shame, because they're so wonderful, but also much cheaper to just buy from the UK, notify the vendor of no VAT and have them shipped here). Their prices, by the way, are about 15-20% higher than lie nielsen here, which is pretty much a non-starter, especially when we're not paying VAT and have no reason for them to be that high. The UK price appears to be about the same as LN is here if you take VAT off.

 

[shed9]

I'd love a Veritas No3 and would gladly pay $240 for it. A No3 is such a useful size. It's lighter which means it's easier to use and manoeuvre and because it's narrower you have less resistance. Combine this with the excellent Veritas adjustment and you have my dream plane.

Never understood why they don't do a No 3 in their range - big fan of No 3's.

 

[Saer Llongau]

We're a minority I do have a lovely Record No3 from the early 50's with a Veritas replacement blade that's a dream to use.

 

[shed9]

We're a minority I do have a lovely Record No3 from the early 50's with a Veritas replacement blade that's a dream to use.

Got a bit of a thing for 3's myself, got a few Stanley type 11's and recently took delivery of a LN No 3 Superb plane (Christmas present to myself). It never occurred to me that Veritas blades could be a viable option to replace old blades, just assumed the usual suspects of Ray Iles and Hock, etc.

 

[Saer Llongau]

The nice thing about the Veritas blades is that they're almost the same thickness. The old standard Record and Stanley blades are 2.2mm and the Veritas is 2.5mm so you can just drop it in your plane and go. You don't have to file open the mouth or mess around with the y-lever.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I have relatives coming from US and Canada soon and I have an opportunity from them to bring me something back from Lee Valley.

I am still fairly new to hand planes, but my current setup consists of two planes:

ECE Block plane (which I love)
"New" Stanley SW Low Angle jack
I also have a plan to buy a used rebate/shoulder plane of some kind soon.

I don't currently have a shooting board setup, but I was thinking of buying something like the Veritas Mitre plane or the Shooting board plane.

Yes, I know I could just use the low angle jack, and yes, I could buy something old yada yada...but I want something nice and new and this opportunity doesn't happen very often.

I was just thinking of getting the shooting plane, but would the mitre plane be more versatile?

Also my sharpening setup consists of a couple of Ultex diamond stones with a leather strop - would this make sense for the PMV11 blade?

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/Page.a ... 1182,48945

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.a ... 1182,48945


Thanks

Hi Bodgers

I am coming in fairly late, but no one has asked the question "what do you need?". What you "want" is the shooting plane, and I think that getting this now would be a mistake ... doubling up on what you have ... and then you will miss out on so much pleasure in building furniture with a fuller compliment of great tools.

There are fundamental planes missing from your collection, and these include ...

plough plane
rebate plane
router plane
Stanley or wooden jack plane
smoother
jointer plane

Note that I have deliberately omitted the shoulder plane. I have 5 of them (they are rather seductive ) and, as I became more experienced, they became less needed. I would concentrate on more important tools.

Of all the Veritas planes, I would be looking to add a plough. Either the Small Plow or the Combination Plane. Both also enable you to plane rebates (with the appropriate blades, so get them), while the Combo (at a higher price) also lets you do dados and other treatments.

Next, I would look at the Large Router Plane. This is simply the best router plane around - wide range of cutters and easy adjustability. You will use it for levelling grooves, dados (you could nearly get the Small Plow and the Large Router Plane for same price as the Combo Plane), hinge mortices ...

You need a smoother (#3 or #4 size), a jack (#5) and a jointer ($7), however these lie in the future. For now get the vintage Stanley or Record versions - you may never want to change them.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Bodgers]

I have relatives coming from US and Canada soon and I have an opportunity from them to bring me something back from Lee Valley.

I am still fairly new to hand planes, but my current setup consists of two planes:

ECE Block plane (which I love)
"New" Stanley SW Low Angle jack
I also have a plan to buy a used rebate/shoulder plane of some kind soon.

I don't currently have a shooting board setup, but I was thinking of buying something like the Veritas Mitre plane or the Shooting board plane.

Yes, I know I could just use the low angle jack, and yes, I could buy something old yada yada...but I want something nice and new and this opportunity doesn't happen very often.

I was just thinking of getting the shooting plane, but would the mitre plane be more versatile?

Also my sharpening setup consists of a couple of Ultex diamond stones with a leather strop - would this make sense for the PMV11 blade?

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/Page.a ... 1182,48945

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.a ... 1182,48945


Thanks

Hi Bodgers

I am coming in fairly late, but no one has asked the question "what do you need?". What you "want" is the shooting plane, and I think that getting this now would be a mistake ... doubling up on what you have ... and then you will miss out on so much pleasure in building furniture with a fuller compliment of great tools.

There are fundamental planes missing from your collection, and these include ...

plough plane
rebate plane
router plane
Stanley or wooden jack plane
smoother
jointer plane

Note that I have deliberately omitted the shoulder plane. I have 5 of them (they are rather seductive ) and, as I became more experienced, they became less needed. I would concentrate on more important tools.

Of all the Veritas planes, I would be looking to add a plough. Either the Small Plow or the Combination Plane. Both also enable you to plane rebates (with the appropriate blades, so get them), while the Combo (at a higher price) also lets you do dados and other treatments.

Next, I would look at the Large Router Plane. This is simply the best router plane around - wide range of cutters and easy adjustability. You will use it for levelling grooves, dados (you could nearly get the Small Plow and the Large Router Plane for same price as the Combo Plane), hinge mortices ...

You need a smoother (#3 or #4 size), a jack (#5) and a jointer ($7), however these lie in the future. For now get the vintage Stanley or Record versions - you may never want to change them.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I failed to point out that I do have a wood jointer plane (ECE) on order from Germany. I think I might look at something the new Stanley SW No. 4 to use as a smoother.

Like I was mentioning earlier, I could get other stuff, but I have this window of opportunity to get a Vertias plane at a good price.

Noted on the router plane, I may stretch the budget to get this as well.

Your advice on the plough planes contradicts the others I think I might get a Stanley 45 or one of the more modern 13-050s at some point...

Thanks

 

[El Barto]

For what it's worth, I have a Record 071 router plane and while it is a brilliant tool I would definitely like something with smoother adjustment. Mine is quite "sticky" and generally a pain to adjust blade depth (I'm sure I could remedy this quite easily and haven't) but if I was to get one again it'd probably be the Veritas.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I think I might look at something the new Stanley SW No. 4 to use as a smoother. .....

....Your advice on the plough planes contradicts the others I think I might get a Stanley 45 or one of the more modern 13-050s at some point...

Bodgers, I would not recommend a new Stanley SW #4 over a vintage Stanley #4. I am sure that others here would support this.

Regarding a plough plane, my advice is to get one that is dedicated to ploughing. This is why the Small Plow would be a good purchase. Does my advice contradict others? What do they know?

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[thetyreman]

For what it's worth, I have a Record 071 router plane and while it is a brilliant tool I would definitely like something with smoother adjustment. Mine is quite "sticky" and generally a pain to adjust blade depth (I'm sure I could remedy this quite easily and haven't) but if I was to get one again it'd probably be the Veritas.

you wouldn't regret the veritas router barto, it is superb, precision engineered, a beautiful tool, everything about it is quality, I think the lie nielsen would be equally good as well

 

[Vann]

I would have said get the Low Angle Jack plane but as you already have the Stanley version...

That would have been my recommendation too. Have you considered the BUS (Veritas Bevel Up Smoother). It has a very good reputation and is quite a bit smaller (= lighter for air travel) than the chuting plane.

My own feelings regarding bench planes are:
- don't spend big money on a new roughing plane - save the big money for a precision plane (buy a second-hand jack);
- I don't feel comfortable with the Veritas bevel-down planes - if you're buying new get a Clifton or Lie-Nielsen.

Any of the Veritas specialist planes suggested by others would make a nice gift to yourself.

Good luck with the decision making.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Woody2Shoes]

Hi,

personally, I find the Veritas bench planes are let down by the Norris lateral adjustment mechanism which I find irritating, but of course they have many other genuine innovations which help compensate (like exemplary design, materials and quality control, alignment grubscrews etc. etc.etc.).

I would not hesitate to recommend almost any (other!) Veritas goodies:

- Large router plane (with a nice variety of cutters available) - I agree that it's probably the best out there (the new "medium" one is nice too and takes the same cutters);
- Shoulder plane (middle-sized one is probably all you'll ever want);
- Skew Rebate/Rabbet plane;
- Scrub plane;
- Cabinet Scraper;
- Spokeshaves;
- Workbench accessories.

I've not used their plough planes (I use an old Record 50 and a new QS copy of the old 043, which are nice) - I'm sure they are "best of breed" amongst modern examples.

I have a Veritas shooting plane with PMV11 blade (having read Derek Cohen's review, amongst others). I like it a lot, but with a (heavy, but I need the exercise!) Quangsheng No 5 1/2 I can shoot pretty much the same at lower cost (and with a plane that is not a "one-trick pony"). I have QS benchplanes, which are excellent (LN copies, in effect), as well as old-school Stanley Baileys.

I guess it might be helpful to think more about what new shiny tool might get most use. Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice, of course. Have fun!

Cheers, W2S

PS diamonds are just fine for sharpening A2/PMV11 - subject to the caveat raised by Custard re. big grinds on thick blades being tedious

 

[Bodgers]

I think I might look at something the new Stanley SW No. 4 to use as a smoother. .....

....Your advice on the plough planes contradicts the others I think I might get a Stanley 45 or one of the more modern 13-050s at some point...

Bodgers, I would not recommend a new Stanley SW #4 over a vintage Stanley #4. I am sure that others here would support this.

Regarding a plough plane, my advice is to get one that is dedicated to ploughing. This is why the Small Plow would be a good purchase. Does my advice contradict others? What do they know?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Why is that? I have the new SW Low angle and in my (inexperienced) it is a super plane, dead flat sole, nicely made and a heavy lump of iron. Is the no 4 not as good?

 

[custard]

The issue you face Bodgers is how much do you want to spend on woodworking? It's not a cheap hobby, if the objective is general furniture making then it's pretty easy to spend £2,000 on hand tools and workshop basics. And that £2,000 budget doesn't include any premium Veritas, Lie Nielsen, or Clifton kit. If your tastes run to expensive brands you could easily sink £4,000 or £5,000 into hand tools, and that's before even thinking about power tools and machinery.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/how- ... 06958.html

If you've got deep pockets or you're committed to woodworking as a lifetime hobby then fair enough. But the truth is that most people tinker around for a couple of years, end up disappointed when they discover that woodworking to a decent standard is harder than it first appears, and then move onto something new.

Best advice is to think hard about what you really need for current or immediate projects, and beyond that leave the money in your pocket.

 

[Saer Llongau]

Here's a plane I would buy. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Record-vinta ... SwqfZaXQGY

Clean it up, flatten the frog and sole, lubricate all the moving part and you have a very nice plane that will perform just as well as any Lie Nielsen or Veritas.