which rip saw?

[sparky]

hello to all

i am a brand new member but a long time reader. i love this stuff.

however time has come for me to ask a question that has me very clueless. :?
first some background. i have been woodworking with hand tools exclusively now for about a year (as a hobby) and so far i have used japanese saws for the basic stuff of crosscutting and joinery (i have a couple very nice but cheap saws)

but now i am interested in a good saw mainly for dovetails but also the ocassional tenon cheek. at this point only one saw is really an option so i was wondering what your thoughts were.
im thinking either the obvioius DT saw or a slightly larger rip carcass saw.

also (and this is a good problem) :wink: i am not sure what brand to get. there are so many great saws out there the lie nielsen, wenzloff & sons, and the adria (mike may be able to help) and they all seem to be similiar in price and dimensions.
im leaning toward the wenzloff & sons but i saw that there is a 6-8 week wait...is that right or am i confused?
right now the easiest to come across is the LN but i was hoping for some thoughts from the experts


thanks
sparky

 

[George_N]

Hi Sparky and Welcome. Mike Wenzloff is a regular on this forum and his products are very highly regarded. I haven't personally used one of his saws but I think it would be worth the wait.

 

[mr]

The reason as I understand for the 6-8 week wait for Mike W s saws is that he and his boys make them all by hand to your specification. I had a brief chat with Mike about having one made and I can promise you that hes a through and through gent and a fount of helpful info. In the end I didn't place an order - the financier forbad but Im waiting 'till she's looking the other way. If you have the cash I don't think you'll be disappointed having seen Phillys in the flesh.

Cheers Mike

 

[dchenard]

Well, if you already use Japanese saws, why not stick with them? Go for the gold and get a Yataiki from Misugi. You'll cry only once, but a whole lot :shock:

http://www.misugidesigns.com/yataiki2.html

Downside, if you can still get one made (Yataiki is pushing 80), you might have to wait a year to get one.

I should find out within a month if I can get one made (actually two, in the Golden Dragon brand, more "affordable"). Crossing my fingers...

DC

 

[woodbloke]

mr wrote:

If you have the cash I don't think you'll be disappointed having seen Phillys in the flesh

Agreed, Mike W do make a pretty saw, but so do LN and Adria....... all of which Philly has so its very confusing :? - Rob

 

[sparky]

rob

i love your signature.
i can't agree more about sandpaper! :x

thanks for the replys but i was also curious about the size for a saw. should i consider a DT saw or would a slightly larger carcass saw (filed rip) be a bit more useful for DTs and tenons

i do have a midranged dozuki saw that is brand new (i used it for the first time yesturday) but there is something about the whole pulling thing verses the pushing thing that feels a bit off. maybe it is that the first saws that i used as a kid were regular push saws. the new dozuki sure is nice but a bit slow (im thinking about returning it) i like a pistol grip and im a traditional kind of guy so there is something appealing about western saws :wink:

 

[MikeW]

Oh, I wondered why my ears were burning this morning!

Sparky,

One issue with using the same saw for both DTs and tenon cheeks is effeciency. If you get a saw which does rips across the thickness--like DTs--then it is pretty finely toothed as regards tenon cheeks on all but the narrowest tenons. If you get a saw which is good for tenon cheeks, it may well be too coarse for the DT type cuts.

We're presently swamped. Got several hundred saws on the books. However, if you can swing it cost-wise and want new saws, I would consider talking with Mike Hancock about the Adria DT and small tenon combo, which is called the Adria Saw Set 1 Ref: HWZ-ADS+ATS.

Might be more than you desire to spend at the moment. If so, consider either the LN or Adria DT saw and find a good tenon saw at a boot sale. The DT saw is the hard one to find vintage I would think. Tenon saws both there and here seem to be what is found a lot.

Take care, Mike

 

[bugbear]

We're presently swamped. Got several hundred saws on the books

Cool. Put your prices up. The world of woodworking can survive prices (look at Holtey). We cannot survive good toolmakers going bust (Shepherd).

I think your saws and Wayne Anderson's planes are underpriced given the quality and/or work in them.

BugBear

 

[MikeW]

We're presently swamped. Got several hundred saws on the books

Cool. Put your prices up. The world of woodworking can survive prices (look at Holtey). We cannot survive good toolmakers going bust (Shepherd).
...

Thank you for the kind words, BB.

What we are going to do [and are doing] is make processes more efficient, thereby making more per saw. Part of that is moving into a cost-effective larger space. The space will improve workflow greatly.

It's amazing how much time is wasted in a 12' x 12' space when there are 3 people bumping butts all day :lol:

Another way is better tooling and more of it to save machine set-up/tear-down time, larger quantities of raw materials [ever buy 1000 pounds of steel before? Sure beats the smaller quantities!

Prices will hold at least another year.

Take care, Mike

 

[Paul Kierstead]

Cool. Put your prices up. The world of woodworking can survive prices (look at Holtey). We cannot survive good toolmakers going bust (Shepherd).

I am still quite surprised at his saw prices. My previous attempts at being charged more have more or less failed, so I am trying a new tactic

 

[Paul Chapman]

Prices will hold at least another year.

Phew, that's a relief

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Sparky

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Neil

 

[engineer one]

mike don't move, just get smaller buts, by chasing the bears more when they steal the pizzas :lol: :twisted: :lol: :twisted:

thing is you try things and then find a market, and then have to find a way of making then efficiently. it is always a gamble moving to the next stage of production, but like every body wish you great success.

paul :wink:

 

[Colin C]

Prices will hold at least another year.

Take care, Mike

I think I will have to try and see if the powers that be will let me have one sooner than later :shock: [-o< :wink:

 

[humanfish]

cripes, me too

 

[Mittlefehldt]

Sparky getting back to your original question, what Mike says seems to be true here in sunny Southern Ontario as well. dovetail saws second hand seem to be rare, whereas the larger tenon saws are more generally available.

I have two old tenon saws that I bought in a box lot at an auction for $15. both made by R H, Smith of St. Catharines Ontario one with a steel back seems to be roughly 1910 vintage, the other, with a brass back is pre 1900, and they then older one cross cut the newer rip cut. I also have a new Pax dovetail saw that I use as well.

I would buy a decent dovetail saw and look about for an older tenon saw or two, as Mike said the dovetail saws tend to be too fine a tooth for general tenon cutting. The dovetail saw will cut them but they would be slow.

Also Mike There is a saw that is rare in old ones, that is a tool box saw filed rip, they do turn up but not too often would you be able to make one, just for future reference that is.

James

 

[sparky]

thanks james

one of the things that i was wondering about is that when i look at the specifications for the slightly larger carcass saw (filed rip) on average the tpi is about 13 (where a DT saw is about 15)with a slightly longer and taller blade (maybe a bit thicker too) and i was curious if i were to get that saw could i then have something of a middle of the road solution to having a nice saw that does both dovetails and tenon cheeks. kind of like the #5 jack plane is the 'middle of the road' plane. now in regards to backsaws i am not sure about the kerf differences...they seem to be somewhat similiar. i guess im trying to do two different things with one tool but all things considered they don't seem too different (this from someone with almost no experience with western saws ) im not sure if it couldn't be done. however the general thought seems to be that there is a very good reason that one would use a tenon saw for tenons and a DT saw for DT's :roll:

maybe im being being thickskulled :sign3: [-X [-( ](*,) about this but it would be great to find a saw that can do more than one job especially considering the fact that i probably can only afford one right now. but im leaning toward a DT saw

thanks all

 

[bugbear]

You can do a LOT of woodwork with a 12", 12 tpi cross cut "tenon saw".

It will cut small pieces to length, cut tenon shoulders, tenon cheeks and dovetails.

Now, all of these cuts can be made better by dedicated saws, but then, they could be made EVEN better by a dedicated saw for each task FOR EACH WOOD.

You gotta draw the line somewhere. How deep's ya' pocket?

BugBear

 

[Alf]

You gotta draw the line somewhere.

What kind of talk is that? [-( :lol:

 

[Colin C]

Now, all of these cuts can be made better by dedicated saws, but then, they could be made EVEN better by a dedicated saw for each task FOR EACH WOOD.

BugBear

You have to remember that some have enough saws to do this :roll: :wink: :-$ ( The collector)

Getting my coat