Which grade of Diamond plate for final honing

[bugbear]

Yes, big wet grindstones were used to sharpen hand tools.

You mean grind - sharpening comes later.

BugBear

 

[woodbrains]

Yes, big wet grindstones were used to sharpen hand tools.

You mean grind - sharpening comes later.

BugBear

Hello,

Unless they were 400 grit, in which case you need nothing else! :twisted:

Joking aside, I had one once, about 24 in with a rudimentary pillow bearing and a hand crank. My dad replaced its dilapidated stand and we used it from time to time when I was a lad. Don't know what ever happened to it. Afterwards, we always used single bevel sharpening on oilstones. He must have given it away, I suppose.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbAo4Rp ... e=youtu.be

Always refreshing to see Paul Sellers debunking the modern sharpening fashions. He's dead right IMHO. 30 years ago nobody went much further than the Norton 2 sided stone as a rule, except to strop. Wearing (1988) suggests a quick pass over a finer stone if required, and stropping.
Stropping isn't quite the same "honing" - it's purpose is to remove the wire edge and polish the bevel and the face which reduces friction behind the cutting edge.
The main thing with trad sharpening is "little and often", which is where freehand has the advantage.
Black Arkansas is for razors, scalpels, microtomes etc. - not woodworkers, though Sellers agrees that special work (violin making) might need finer finishing honing. Common sense really.

 

[bugbear]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbAo4RpM7oM&feature=youtu.be

Stropping isn't quite the same "honing" - it's purpose is to remove the wire edge and polish the bevel and the face which reduces friction behind the cutting edge.

It's simply a handy way of accessing finer abrasives than many common stones. Discussed with evidence and detail recently.

advice-on-which-leather-for-strop-t76314.html?hilit=stropping

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbAo4RpM7oM&feature=youtu.be

Stropping isn't quite the same "honing" - it's purpose is to remove the wire edge and polish the bevel and the face which reduces friction behind the cutting edge.

It's simply a handy way of accessing finer abrasives than many common stones. Discussed with evidence and detail recently.

advice-on-which-leather-for-strop-t76314.html?hilit=stropping

BugBear

You can strop with no abrasives - on your hand or on leather with a bit of spit. It polishes and removes the wire edge (if there is any left - it's mostly removed on the stone). It also livens up an edge that has been used. That's the traditional idea and it works. Autosol or similar helps but that's more polish than abrasive, though they merge into one another of course.

 

[bugbear]

You can strop with no abrasives - on your hand or on leather with a bit of spit.

Well, you can fatigue the wire edge off that way, by repeatedly bending it backwards and forwards, like a bored schoolboy breaking a paperclip. It "works" in that it removes the burr, but it leaves a ragged edge. You might as well do the other trad thing, which is to just hack into a piece of endgrain (birch or beech are commonly used) and just rip the wire edge off in a single motion. It's quicker.

Carver's who wanted a good edge used an abrasive loaded strop, mainly rouge.

BugBear

 

[Trafalgar]

Pussyfooting around with the burr might produce a marginally better edge. I guess under magnification it looks like a substantive difference. Magnification has a habit of doing that. Tiny bugs look like horrific monsters. Flies otherworldly. Unmeasurable scratches, the Marianas Trench. Maybe the key is to divest ourselves of our magnifying glasses.

And anyway, one doesn't really need one to admire these 18th/early 19th century beauties (yet again):

http://www.ronaldphillipsantiques.com/D ... oryID=1336

Lots of burls and other figured veneers and figured solid woods. How in the world did they manage to pull it off? Well, because they were able to. And in commercially feasible timeframes it appears as well.

The sharpening wonks and gurus don't seem to have an explanation for it other than to assume that they cried, cursed, and wailed the whole way through. I don't buy it. Not for one second. It's hard to argue with work that went out the door. Acres of it. To a very high standard.

 

[bugbear]

Pussyfooting around with the burr might produce a marginally better edge. I guess under magnification it looks like a substantive difference. Magnification has a habit of doing that. Tiny bugs look like horrific monsters. Flies otherworldly. Unmeasurable scratches, the Marianas Trench. Maybe the key is to divest ourselves of our magnifying glasses.

And anyway, one doesn't really need one to admire these 18th/early 19th century beauties (yet again):

http://www.ronaldphillipsantiques.com/D ... oryID=1336

Lots of burls and other figured veneers and figured solid woods. How in the world did they manage to pull it off? Well, because they were able to. And in commercially feasible timeframes it appears as well.

The sharpening wonks and gurus don't seem to have an explanation for it other than to assume that they cried, cursed, and wailed the whole way through. I don't buy it. Not for one second. It's hard to argue with work that went out the door. Acres of it. To a very high standard.

Your rhetoric is elegant, and your furniture examples are (as ever) lovely.

But I'm afraid to admit, I don't actually see what point you're making. :roll:

BugBear

 

[Trafalgar]

Don't worry. Be happy.

Seems useless to explain it otherwise.

If you own less than a stable of Holteys and polish with less than .05 micron media you've already, in essence, made a choice to do woodwork without the very best. Maybe doing good woodwork doesn't require the absolute very best. Maybe an oilstone and a strop work. They used to, apparently. Did the Earth's magnetic field change and somehow make this no longer so?

 

[bugbear]

Maybe an oilstone and a strop work. They used to, apparently.

And many people have stated, explicitly and clearly that they still do. I'm not sure what statement you're argueing (or at least insinuating) against.

A little less circumlocution might serve well.

BugBear

 

[Trafalgar]

Goodness, not hitting on all cylinders today I see.

 

[Jacob]

.... Maybe an oilstone and a strop work. They used to, apparently. Did the Earth's magnetic field change and somehow make this no longer so?

Something happened about 1990 or a bit later, when sharpening suddenly became very difficult for a lot of people.
It's very mysterious. Some sort of virus?
Luckily there are small pockets of survivors who haven't forgotten the old ways!
And yes an oilstone and a strop do work. Pass it on!

 

[bugbear]

And yes an oilstone and a strop do work.

'swot I said. Consensus's all round!

Especially if you use a decent oil stone or two; india-washita-arkansas oughta' be enough.

BugBear

 

[Trafalgar]

And yes an oilstone and a strop do work.

'swot I said. Consensus's all round!

Especially if you use a decent oil stone or two; india-washita-arkansas oughta' be enough.

BugBear

I usually only use the Black Ark on chisels FWIW. I'm babying a set of Marples straight firmers that I'd like to last the rest of my 'career' as it were. I've come to love those chisels.

I'm confused about what you use in your shop. Are you an oilstone man?

 

[bugbear]

And yes an oilstone and a strop do work.

'swot I said. Consensus's all round!

Especially if you use a decent oil stone or two; india-washita-arkansas oughta' be enough.

BugBear

I usually only use the Black Ark on chisels FWIW. I'm babying a set of Marples straight firmers that I'd like to last the rest of my 'career' as it were. I've come to love those chisels.

I'm confused about what you use in your shop. Are you an oilstone man?

I've got diamond pastes, waterstones, oilstones (cheap for those with patience ), SiC, AlZi and quite a few strops.

They all seem to create sharp edges, when used in ways that suit their particular and divergent properties.

BugBear

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Cheap for those with patience? I picked up a very nice extremely fine oilstone last week for a quid. The fine Norton at Axi is nearly £30. :shock:

 

[bugbear]

Cheap for those with patience? I picked up a very nice extremely fine oilstone last week for a quid. The fine Norton at Axi is nearly £30. :shock:

Whilst India's are fairly frequent, Washita, Arkansas and Coticule are less so. But they show eventually.

BugBear