Which DMT diamond stone grits to go for?

[outcycling]

Hi,
I’ve had a jet jssg10 for quite a while. But it’s lack of build quality has reared it’s head and no longer works. For the record I’d highly suggest you avoid it. It’s a water based machine with parts that are not rust proof. Also even worse is the drive system. Spinning metal rod off motor pushed against a wheel with rubber on the outside. The friction between the 2 is just not enough as the wet side gets rusted/corroded up. Not to mention the water bath is very fragile where it locks to the body of the machine and breaks easily.

Anyway, I have an old Veritas MkI Honing Guide so I’ve decided to go diamond stones and manual sharpening but I am am not sure of which grits to go for. Given the stones are £50 a pop (3” x 8”) i don’t want more than I need. This is for sharpening chisels and plane blades.

I am presuming I’ll need fine (600) and x fine (1200) but to create the initial angle and flatten the backs I was unsure wether to go for course (325) or x course (220). Also is it worth bothering with the xxfine (8000) ? This is all for fine woodworking in my case making acoustic & electric guitars.

So if anyone has any experience with these stones any advice is greatfully received.

 

[outcycling]

And one other thing. Dmt say to use water/washing up liquid on the stones to aid use but some people say it that water isn’t great for the Veritas guide as it can rust? And hence some use trend laping fluid. I’d rather use the water obviously cos it’s cheap/free but don’t want to wreck the guide either. Any experience on this?
Ta

 

[Roxie]

I use "window cleaner" as my lubricant as per Paul Sellars.

 

[Hugopuk]

I am fortunate that I have a full set of Dia-sharp bench stones collected over a number of years, they are in my opinion brilliant, the course grits will help recover a really out of condition plane blade, chisel or knife, so if you buy from a tool from a car boot stall for instance you can get some quality tools that others overlook due to damage and bring them back to a useful life. If your tools are well looked cared for, the 600 will put a good edge on, the 12oo, a fine edge and the 8000 will give a nice polish and all with little effort. I also use a leather strop for a last polish.

I have not had any problem using water as a lubricant as I always ensure after using them I dry down thoroughly and on tools / honing guides use a thin oil for protection.

 

[woodbloke66]

Anyway, I have an old Veritas MkI Honing Guide so I’ve decided to go diamond stones and manual sharpening but I am am not sure of which grits to go for. Given the stones are £50 a pop (3” x 8”) i don’t want more than I need. This is for sharpening chisels and plane blades.

So if anyone has any experience with these stones any advice is greatfully received.

I used to use the DMT's and found them pretty good, if a little small in size to use with a honing guide, so several years ago I switched over the 3M scary sharp films from Workshop Heaven. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the DMT's but, as I say, I found them a little impractical to use with a honing guide as you'll only use the around 50mm or so (?) of the stone to sharpen; the roller will be running on the rest of it - Rob

 

[marcros]

I got mine from https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-C24.aspx. the currency was a bit better back then.

it is worth pricing up what you want with this shop. even with international shipping, the 20% vat, handling fee and a bit of import duty, for me it was well worth the effort particularly if you get one of the package deals.

 

[mbartlett99]

Last year I was working in the US and got a good deal so went the whole hog and bought nearly all the DMTs. Do yourself a favour and learn from my mistake. The x coarse is a waste of money as is the EEF/EEEF; I only use the coarse ( a lot), the fine (a lot a lot) and the EF ( a bit). After the EF or just to rehone the edge I use my Shapton 8000

Veritas honing guides don't rust.

 

[outcycling]

Thanks all,
Good point rob re length of stones but I used to use scary sharp method many years ago but for me I found it took too long and having to change papers was a faff. Lot cheaper mind!
Mbartlett, that’s just the info I needed, thanks. I’ll just get the 3 then.
=D>

 

[outcycling]

Trigger pulled from buybrandtools, cheapest place I could find them. Exchange rate makes it more expensive from abroad.
Many thanks.

 

[custard]

Do you have some kind of powered grinder?

If the answer's no then ask yourself how you'll completely regrind a toll that's been nicked? Or how you'll grind a tool after say eight or ten normal honing when the primary bevel needs re-instating? And if you're using tools made from really tough steels like A2 or High Speed Steel then this becomes an even more pressing question.

For these kind of jobs, where you need to remove a lot of metal, I'd personally always favour a powered grinder. But in the absence of that you'll need either an Extra Coarse diamond stone or equivalent 120 to 180 grit abrasive paper.

At the fine end of the spectrum you may also want something extra in your armoury. I have an XXF diamond stone that's billed as being in the range 6,000-8,000 grit. Hmm? Maybe it is maybe it isn't, but it certainly doesn't polish like even a 6,000 grit water stone will. Bottom line is you may well want something like scary sharp paper at the fine end.

You could use all sorts of abrasives, a black arkansas stone or a strop for example, but personally I like to use the same lubricant throughout the entire sharpening process simply on the grounds of efficiency. In my case this means water with a powered belt linisher, followed by diamond stones, followed by scary sharp.

 

[ED65]

Outcycling, just missed posting in time! But I wanted to mention afresh for anyone who is thinking of buying some new honing materials an important principle: honing isn't sanding. What this means in practice is the jumps in grit can be large, very very large depending on your preferred honing technique.

The standard grit pairings in combination stones are usually a large enough jump that you'd never do it when sanding, in DMT terms this could mean you only need their coarsest offering and an EEF, for your day-to-day honing.

But the gap in grits can be a great deal larger than it's possible to go in diamond stones, as in an India followed by a fine finishing stone, or a 600 JIS waterstone followed up with a 15k.

 

[outcycling]

Hi custod, yep, I have a grinder for creating the initial angle & can then use the DMT course.
Ed,custod. Indeed, I did wonder wether I’d need a much higher grade for final polish but will cross that bridge when I get there. 1200 might be sufficient for my needs. If not then I could just buy a cheaper super fine grit or use some fine wet & dry paper which I already have from my scary sharp days !

 

[marcros]

Last year I was working in the US and got a good deal so went the whole hog and bought nearly all the DMTs. Do yourself a favour and learn from my mistake. The x coarse is a waste of money as is the EEF/EEEF; I only use the coarse ( a lot), the fine (a lot a lot) and the EF ( a bit). After the EF or just to rehone the edge I use my Shapton 8000

Veritas honing guides don't rust.

do you want to sell the EEF/EEEF? I could do with something for kitchen knives.

 

[Tasky]

This is for sharpening chisels and plane blades.

Another follower of Saint Paul here, with the additive-free window cleaner.
I found I'm very happy with either a 250 or 300, followed by a 600 and a 1200, finished off with 15,000 honing compound on a strop.

I buy the cheap 8x3 Ultex diamond plates, myself, so the DMT ones should be great. They might do double-sided stones which are cheaper?

 

[ED65]

Ed,custod. Indeed, I did wonder wether I’d need a much higher grade for final polish but will cross that bridge when I get there. 1200 might be sufficient for my needs.

I suspect you will find it's needed for some or all of your chisels, possibly not for your plane irons. I was going to suggest stropping but since you already have some very fine paper you might as well make use of it if you find it necessary.

Oh just a reminder if needed: there's a break-in period for diamond plates, they'll take a while to settle down to be their nominal grit number. DMT state what this period is in their literature, although user experience suggests it can take ah, somewhat longer!

 

[mbartlett99]

I was being quite literal on answering the question - Custard is dead right you will need a properly coarse alternative and a properly fine one too but not (IMO) by DMT. Their products are good and last a long time but those very fine ones are expensive and my Shapton 8000 will put a mirror shine straight from the DMT EF quickly. I use 120 paper if I've got serious amounts to do.

Marcros - might be willing but as I'm 250 nm off the west coast of Costa Rica delivery might be a minor issue.

 

[marcros]

Let me know when you get back.

Costa Rica sounds nice. 250nm away, less attractive.

 

[ED65]

I generally use a 150 diamond plate for major material removal – manually resetting bevels, repair of minor edge damage and dealing with severe pitting on the flats of old irons or chisels – and since cheapie ones directly from China are around the cost of better grades of abrasive paper (under a fiver) I think they're a sensible buy even if you'd still want to use a long stretch of resin-bonded paper or cloth in 80 or 100 grit for some jobs.

 

[Bm101]

I used to use the DMT's and found them pretty good, if a little small in size to use with a honing guide, so several years ago I switched over the 3M scary sharp films from Workshop Heaven. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the DMT's but, as I say, I found them a little impractical to use with a honing guide as you'll only use the around 50mm or so (?) of the stone to sharpen; the roller will be running on the rest of it - Rob

I use the cheapo Ultex stones. I routed out an ultex sized hole in a bit of mdf with a bit of dowel in the bottom that sits in a hole in my bench to keep it still if I'm using the jig. That way you can run the jig the full length of the stones. When the mdf gets a bit too battered I turn it over then eventually bin it and make another. You could probably make a better quality one from thick acrylic etc I suppose.

 

[outcycling]

Shapton 8000 looks good and certainly cheaper than the xxf dmt stones. I might order one thanks. Given it’s such a fine grit and you are only using it for a final few pull strokes do you find you need to level it much?