When does ripping become re-sawing?

[RogerP]

I built the whole of our kitchen doors, frames and panels, from European oak all ripped or re-sawn to size from kiln dried 2" thick boards of various widths. After 10 years all are fine, including the 1/4" thick raised panelling.

Lucky? Dunno but certainly happy

 

[Jacob]

Thinking about it again; "re-sawing" is reducing stuff to a new "stock" size, as distinct from a near finished size from a cutting list for a project.
Either of these may involve "ripping" i.e. sawing along the grain.
The point of reducing stuff to a new stock size is that the new size is what you reckon you will want to use in future projects and the sooner it is re-sawn the better, for drying and stabilising. There is a risk that you will regret it and find you need some stuff in larger sizes after all, hence the idea of keeping stuff as big as you can for as long as you can.

 

[custard]

I've resawn 1/2" stock from kiln dried oak on 3 occasions for the panels in raised panel doors and they have survived. Once, I left them in the workshop overnight only to find bananas in the morning as you describe. After that I try to use them straight away or if not clamp them in a pile flat on my bench until I use them. Also, if the boards not wide enough for the panel, I'll edge glue the wider stock before resawing and that seems to stabilise it a bit. Smiles and frowns. I'm now worried that my brothers bathroom furniture is going to split!

Good point, I guess securing a panel in a frame can only help, and in the final analysis woodworking is a pragmatic sort of occupation...so if something works then who cares what the theory says!

All I can say is I've been bitten by re-sawing stability problems and therefore I avoid it if I possibly can. Then again, I build a lot of furniture with very traditional drawer construction, and it's wood instability that's probably the biggest barrier to getting a smoothly operating drawer. When I was training at the Barnsley Workshops they made it clear that when it comes to drawer making you're expected to go above and beyond to get everything flat, straight and as stable as humanly possible. You'd sticker your drawer sides under your bench for weeks and weeks (after firstly hunting high and low for the straightest grain stock you could find), repeatedly flattening and bringing them down to dimension a little bit at a time. Even if the drawer cavity was largely constructed from veneered man made boards you were discouraged from just assuming it was flat and straight, a domino or a dowel might have introduced a tiny bulge. And you'd go through three distinct stages of drawer fitting, first without the bottom, again with the bottom installed, and finally when the top and back of the piece were in place (because any instability in these components can alter the geometry of the drawer cavity). I work on the basis that the cost of wood is insignificant compared to the hundreds of hours that I might put into a project, so I do all I can to get my materials true and stable in the first place.

 

[RogerP]

.........
Good point, I guess securing a panel in a frame can only help, and in the final analysis woodworking is a pragmatic sort of occupation...so if something works then who cares what the theory says!

To allow for expansion/contraction according to atmospheric humidity solid wood panels are normally best left "loose" so the edges "float" within the grooves.

 

[custard]

.........
Good point, I guess securing a panel in a frame can only help, and in the final analysis woodworking is a pragmatic sort of occupation...so if something works then who cares what the theory says!

To allow for expansion/contraction according to atmospheric humidity solid wood panels are normally best left "loose" so the edges "float" within the grooves.

By "securing" I'm thinking in terms of a panel that floats, but where the edges are in grooves which resist cupping.

 

[ayuce]

Good to know bad to hear that. One of the prime motivation why i bought a P/T is to resaw bigger cheaper rough sawn (if possible reclaimed) lumber.

Custard do you expect quarter sawn and riftsawn boards also cups after being resawn ?

You're right to point out that the cut of the timber has a bearing on its stability. However, the really big influence is the moisture difference between the very centre of the board and nearer out towards the face. Unless the board has an absolutely constant moisture level throughout its thickness the board is guaranteed to cup when re-sawn.

I was recently completing the cutting list for a dressing table in quarter sawn oak and was getting low on material. To make it all work I decided to get the 12mm drawer sides out by re-sawing a 30mm board. I knew it was taking a gamble, but the boards seemed thoroughly dried and it was absolutely bang on the quarter cut, so I thought it was worth a go.

Big mistake.

There was a moisture gradient inside the board after all; as soon as it came off the bandsaw I had the sorry experience of watching my beautiful quarter sawn drawer sides curl up like Shirley Temple's hair. They couldn't be salvaged and I eventually made the drawer sides out of some sycamore I had.

There are some components that you know you'll need thinner stuff for, cedar drawer bottoms, chestnut cabinet backs, drawer sides etc. I try and source these components as thinner boards in the first place, or I'll bite the bullet and plane down a thicker board equally from each face, even though it's galling to see all that lovely timber converted into shavings.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

This discussion about resawing, aka 'deeping' or deep ripping makes me think it might be useful for some to have a browse through this illustrated text on fairly common wood drying faults, that also discusses undertaking the fork or prong test to help assess whether or not it's worthwhile attempting a resawing task. Slainte.

 

[ayuce]

Very informative and practical, thanks.

 

[condeesteso]

Not seen the fork test before and I tend to be measly with stock so 300mm off a good board end might hurt me a bit, but it's a good test. I've had many a dramatic surprise deep ripping boards on the b/s - the most common drama for me is the case-hardened effect with a big bow opening where the kerf was, ending in a very large bang when the 2 new boards explode apart. Followed by a very lot of wastage #-o Most recent was a very nice quartered oak board, surely an m/c issue.

p.s. - I then left those 2 boards for at least a week expecting some equalisation of m/c across thickness, but they never returned to straight.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Not seen the fork test before and I tend to be measly with stock so 300mm off a good board end might hurt me a bit, but it's a good test.

In most cases if you're working with something like 10' or 8' boards you'll need to cut shorter pieces out to get your desired lengths (left over-length for initial machining) for whatever project you're working on. You're generally able to find a sacrificial bit an inch or two long for the fork test from somewhere in the middle of the length - not always of course, but more often than not.

There are methods to (frequently successfully) remove case-hardening from wood, but the technology needed isn't generally available for most woodworkers, i.e., basically kilning equipment or similar. Slainte.

 

[Job and Knock]

I'm not aware of a British book on the TS, but there is a series of British DVDs on the subject, including one specifically on TS safety!

You surprise me, Steve. There's always the HSE website on the subject, sheet WIS16 Circular Saw Benches - Safe Working Practices which I personally feel that all retailers selling table saws should be forced to print out and include with the machines. Sound advice and best of all it's free

Most of the texts on wood machining are more general and cover the full range, e.g. "Machine Woodworking Technology for Hand Woodworkers" by F E Sherlock, which has a reasonable section on table saw practice, although no better on table saws than the HSE web site. That book is a bit out of date now but still a very useful text. I believe that a new edition may be in preparation. Another useful, if older, book is Nigel Voisey's "Wood Machining: A Complete Guide to Effective and Safe Working Practices" which again is showing it's age but has a relatively good section on table saws and is aimed less at the trade wood machinist than Sherlock's book. Both available from Strobart-Davies in Ammanford

If you want the really technical stuff there's Eric Stephenson's "Circular Saws: Their Manufacture, Maintenance and Application in the Woodworking Industries" which covers the blade technology more. Eric, the author, is a fascinating chap who was once in the design office of Thomas Robinson in Rochdale as well as having, I believe, designed the Autool grinder which are used to grind spindle moulder and moulding machine profile knives and limiters

 

[Job and Knock]

Need to find a foolproof custom crown guard design, saw some ideas - like suva- but not sure about them.

The Internet provides - amazingly from the American Badger Pond. The guy removes the riving knife, which I wouldn't do, but the design itself is perfectly useable as well as a good starting point for a home-brewed model of your own

 

[blackrodd]

As job and knock has said, and I wrote a couple of weeks ago, " WS16,circular saw benches-safe working practices" is extremely well written, and a must for new and present saw bench owners.
Surprisingly,This H&S site is full of excellent, and practical wood working guidelines on all wood working machinery, and safety practices, Please read it and be safe!
Regards Rodders