what's wrong with my planing technique?

[Dan23]

Hello all,
This is my first post after being a long time lurker.

I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong when planing boards or anything to that matter. I always take of more at the edge farthest away and my stock ends up as a wedge or a taper.

say I'm planing the board across the grain to thickness it I'll hit my line at the edge furthest away from me first. even though my shavings look even and I'm making a conscious effort to make even passes along the board.

same with thin stock and planing edges if I'm jointing an edge with super fine passes I end up making a huge wedge as id hit the line at the far end first.

Happens with both my no 4 and 5 also I borrowed a friends (modern) low angle jack still the same issue.
always flatten one side first and take out twist etc before marking along the edge to thickness too.

its not a huge deal as I'm aware of it now and just change the orientation of the board, but it ends up taking so long and being a faff and the workpiece ends up convex! If its a technique issue I want to nip it in the bud.

Thanks in advance.
Dan.

 

[rob1693]

I use very thin straight grained stock to set up iron square taking a very light cut and trying it on both sides until shavings are identical it doesn't have to be out of square by much to get what your describing

 

[Jacob]

Can help to do a quick pencil scribble over the high points/areas you need to take down, and concentrate on just those. Check by sighting down the board and with winding sticks. Planing across the grain might not be the way to go.
You have to look at what you are doing and how it is going rather than doing it head down and hoping it'll turn out OK.

 

[Ttrees]

Search for David Charlesworth with the term "stopped shavings"
All the best
Tom

 

[Luke Barnard]

When I started handplaning, I would get similar results if I just continuously planed a face or edge from end to end - most of the time I end up taking off more from the farthest edge - be it with or across the grain. I don't know the cause. I had wondered if it was me systematically applying more pressure through the length of the cut. However, the problem basically went away when I stopped taking full length passes, and instead used a combination of stopped cuts and full length passes to work down to the line.

As I see Ttrees has just mentioned as I wrote this!

 

[D_W]

This is sort of a two part process. First, you have to stop planing the board into a wedge. Stopping shavings short of the end is one thing. Do that first.

Second, you need to plane a flat face perhaps where the wedge shape won't matter at first and then mark thickness with a gauge and plane not to pass the gauge mark when thicknessing. If you're getting close to the gauge mark, plane only spots where you need to remove material.

Ultimately, once you get the hang of taking material off evenly, you'll be able to plane through the length of the board taking an even cut.

Part of the problem beginners have a lot of, aside from planing a hump into the middle of a board, is getting the plane started on the near end of a board with full cut depth.

You have two choices when you're planing the far end down and not the near end at all (stop shavings won't solve the whole problem if you're not planing the part of the board near you at all.
1) turn the board around and plane the fat part going away
2) get better at starting the plane near you and taking short shavings just in the part of the edge that needs to be fixed.

There are a few people here who have never done what they say they do, but the next thing you need to get a handle on is setting the cap iron to stop tearout and keep shaving thickness even. What you're doing is the part of the work where the cap iron economically eliminated any other type of plane - starting the cut easily and keeping the iron in it so that you can remove the wood evenly anywhere.

Starting the plane in the next post...

 

[D_W]

To do what you're doing efficiently if you want to, you need to be able to start the plane with any plane. Make sure:
1) the plane is sharp - as soon as the plane isn't starting easily, you need to resharpen or check what you're doing. If the plane doesn't start at the near edge after you sharpen, you have a clearance problem. Look that up only if this occurs.
2) that you have the bias of pressure toward the front of the plane so that the plane isn't jumping above the board as soon as you start the cut
3) if the plane is a little hard starting or the wood isn't ideal or really just as a matter of good practice, skew the plane ever so slightly and instead of trying to start smooth, give it a little bump, like the kind of force you'd use on a door that's just sticking a little bit, and the plane should start

straighten the plane in the same motion as the plane is coming on to the board.

 

[D_W]

The reason people plane boards convex, also - two of them
1) cap iron isn't set and the plane isn't taking an even shaving - it'll be biased to plane down the end. If you're taking an even thickness break free shaving from one end to the other, if the board starts flat, it'll end flat. You'll ultimately find after not much time that you're planing a board hollow with through shavings (as in, you get the hang of pressure biases planing and you end up planing more out of the center than the ends despite planing through the entire length
2) a plane has a concave sole.

#2 is a problem that you can see with a straight edge. It's not uncommon, but less than 50/50 chance and almost everyone has trouble with #1.

I often got grief from Mr. Charlesworth about what you could do or not do, but I demonstrated in a video planing through the length and planing the board more hollow from flat while doing it. I'm sure it's on here somewhere - David didn't deny it was occurring once I demonstrated, but he also didn't believe that dimensioning material with hand tools was reasonable and spent most of his time with beginners, so it's not a surprise that some sort of intuitive routine things would seem like they weren't reasonable to expect when using hand tools.

I think anyone who did this for a large part of their living 200 years ago would've done all of this pretty easily.

Digest this in parts - your first order of business is getting the plane to plane the wood evenly, along with seeing where the problem starts and not planing there. The rest of this you can tackle one thing at a time.

use your #5 for now. Planing with a bevel up plane to do more than smooth wood is a complete dead end. The 4 has a short nose and getting the plane started full depth on the end of the board facing you will be a little tougher to work through.

 

[profchris]

I still do this if I'm not concentrating.

The fix (when I remember to do it) is to stop pressing down on the front knob once the plane is properly into the workpiece. Then the weight transfers to the tote at the rear, and my hand at the front is just steadying the plane with no down pressure at all. Might be worth trying if you don't consciously do this.

This assumes your board is the same depth at both ends to start with - if not, stopped shavings are how to fix that, as others have explained.

 

[D_W]

by the way, I mentioned clearance above - if you're holding down on the front of the plane to get the cut started and you don't get instant bite into the end of the board and a good start (like if you get chatter or anything at all, that will defeat planing a flat surface, you're already starting off planing less off of the near end), I would highly recommend following a relatively tedious but successful sharpening method like David Charlesworth shows. It will give you the feel for a sharp plane that doesn't have any clearance issues.

Chris is explaining pressure biases to you - they are important to learn as part of this - but getting everything down at once is like telling someone.."just saw to the line when cutting tenons and you shouldn't have any further fitting" Improvement is incremental until each thing you learn becomes a habit of feel and not thought.

 

[Jacob]

I still do this if I'm not concentrating.

The fix (when I remember to do it) is to stop pressing down on the front knob once the plane is properly into the workpiece. Then the weight transfers to the tote at the rear, and my hand at the front is just steadying the plane with no down pressure at all. Might be worth trying if you don't consciously do this.

That's it for edges - you plane as though trying to plane a hollow. Still need to keep checking for square and straightness and if in doubt pencil mark where it needs taking off.
Straightedges not really necessary you check by looking. If edge jointing you check the fit with the other board and adjust either/both accordingly.
What Charlesworth describes is basically just normal planing but he makes an incredibly fussy job of it and it's probably best to ignore him! Sorry Dave!

This assumes your board is the same depth at both ends to start with - if not, stopped shavings are how to fix that, as others have explained.

Yes you can start a cut just taking it from the middle if it's very bowed.

 

[thetyreman]

you need to be patient, keep looking at the line after every few strokes, when you're close to the line have it set very fine and gradually plane to the line but not beyond it, practise on some scraps and check with a metal straight edge for any gaps, I had exactly the same problem as you when starting out, it just takes practise and often slowing down.

 

[Hornbeam]

I agree that David Charlesworths guide to planing is excellent
If you are consistently removing more material from the back of your board then

• Your plane iron is slightly out of adjustment and is set slightly deeper at the back
• You are very slightly tilting or just applying more pressure at the back of the plane
• If it is a wide board you are taking more passes at the back of teh board

I would advice you use a slightly cambered blade (may cause all sorts of debate) set so it just doesnt cuts at both edges . trial this on a thin strip
Practice on a material about 25 mm wide. By moving the plane so it cuts on different portions of the bade you can alter whether you are cutting just off the front. whole width or just off the back
The sole of the plane must maintain uniform downward pressure
Keep the shavings very fine so you can see what is happening and clear the plane throat
Practice

Solving your problem by turning the workpiece round may work on straight parallel but it wont on angled or difficult grain

 

[Jacob]

I agree that David Charlesworths guide to planing is excellent
If you are consistently removing more material from the back of your board then

• Your plane iron is slightly out of adjustment and is set slightly deeper at the back
• You are very slightly tilting or just applying more pressure at the back of the plane
• If it is a wide board you are taking more passes at the back of teh board

I would advice you use a slightly cambered blade (may cause all sorts of debate) set so it just doesnt cuts at both edges . trial this on a thin strip
Practice on a material about 25 mm wide. By moving the plane so it cuts on different portions of the bade you can alter whether you are cutting just off the from. whole width or just off the back
The sole of the plane must maintain uniform downward pressure
Keep the shavings very fine so you can see what is happening and clear the plane throat
Practice

Solving your problem by turning the workpiece round may work on straight parallel but it wont on angled or difficult grain

Yes practice on thin board edges so you can see what's going on.

 

[thetyreman]

sawing and hand planing takes a lot of practise before you get really good at it.

 

[baldkev]

What you need is cider. Get yourself some pieces of timber to practice with. Each time you fail to get a nice flat edge, have a pint of cider...... youll be proper happy before you know it and straight/ flat edges can wait for another day

 

[Ttrees]

The reason people plane boards convex, also - two of them
1) cap iron isn't set and the plane isn't taking an even shaving - it'll be biased to plane down the end. If you're taking an even thickness break free shaving from one end to the other, if the board starts flat, it'll end flat. You'll ultimately find after not much time that you're planing a board hollow with through shavings (as in, you get the hang of pressure biases planing and you end up planing more out of the center than the ends despite planing through the entire length
2) a plane has a concave sole.

#2 is a problem that you can see with a straight edge. It's not uncommon, but less than 50/50 chance and almost everyone has trouble with #1.

I often got grief from Mr. Charlesworth about what you could do or not do, but I demonstrated in a video planing through the length and planing the board more hollow from flat while doing it. I'm sure it's on here somewhere - David didn't deny it was occurring once I demonstrated, but he also didn't believe that dimensioning material with hand tools was reasonable and spent most of his time with beginners, so it's not a surprise that some sort of intuitive routine things would seem like they weren't reasonable to expect when using hand tools.

I think anyone who did this for a large part of their living 200 years ago would've done all of this pretty easily.

Digest this in parts - your first order of business is getting the plane to plane the wood evenly, along with seeing where the problem starts and not planing there. The rest of this you can tackle one thing at a time.

use your #5 for now. Planing with a bevel up plane to do more than smooth wood is a complete dead end. The 4 has a short nose and getting the plane started full depth on the end of the board facing you will be a little tougher to work through.

Still not guaranteed nose diving with the cap iron set, and a plane which hinges somewhere around the middle.
I learned this was a most notable occurrence whilst planing workbench feet to a line, This certainly caught me out lol!

 

[D_W]

I don't have a problem with someone insulting me about having a day job, but the inability to look at things objectively and actually try them is a real serious forum disease.

So are things like making assertions about what someone knows or doesn't know when they are literally factually false based on things posted on this actual forum.

 

[D_W]

Still not guaranteed nose diving with the cap iron set, and a plane which hinges somewhere around the middle.
I learned this was a most notable occurrence whilst planing workbench feet to a line, This certainly caught me out lol!
View attachment 143054

You're right - you can still bias pressure the wrong way, intentionally or unintentionally.

What i mentioned about first get the slow and then figure out how to do it fast was that I learned from charlesworth's videos but then was determined to get the same results but as a matter of the process of planing. The only thing that you can do is fail, which doesn't cost anything - but I didn't and learned along the way what doesn't work and what does.

The goal in this case is to be able to take a board that's not flat and plane it flat, or an edge that's not flat and square and plane it flat and square in the same planing that reduces wood you don't want. It's not hard to get to that, at least I think it isn't. If the board isn't flat but the plane is, the plane will tell you by feel with the right pressure biases that it's not cutting through the board.

the pressure bias is another thing that has to be learned properly slow so that it is the only thing that feels right.

Not surprisingly, learning something new in music is the same way. To learn to do something fast and well is better accomplished by playing over and over slowly and really nailing it. Then, when you do it fast, it's clean and even. It's tedious to learn that way, but the results are far better once you speed things up.

There are other things that can cause a board to end up out of flat (not being flat on the bench, having flex, etc) but we try to avoid or limit those.

If the plane sole is flat and not hollow and the board is humped, the pressure bias will cause the started cut to be even and then the plane will be out of the cut before the end of the board. The natural reaction is to let the plane down so it stays in the cut - we know that's bad. It just traces the problem down further. The next reaction is to try to plane the hump out of the middle, but it may not be focused directly in the middle. Unless it's pronounced in one spot (which the plane will tell you when you run over the edge the first time), I generally on shorter boards will plane through the length and see if it resolves by the time the near edge is finished - it's just faster and if that's the case, it's done more or less on free time - time you'd be planing, anyway.

 

[Dan23]

Thank you all for the replies so far, a lot to unpack. I'm going try and get some workshop time either tonight or towards the end of the week (kids back to school ). I will post my progress any other questions I have.

Dan