what's this tool?

[Billy Flitch]

I´m not a plane expert And most of what I say here is from memory or looking in different places on the net.
Its just my opinion but i think it is a genuine Bailey, how do I work this out. Ok it has no frog adjustment screw Stanley first fitted these in 1907 they where a development from the Bedrock planes but some American makers did not fit them till much later on.
The bed for the frog on the sole of the plane is machined flat this is a option that Bailey was known to be experimenting with before 1869, Stanley started to machine the bed flat in 1874.
So this points to a genuine Baily from 1867-69 or a Stanley from 1874 to 1888 when Stanley changed the bed design.

Now something to think about Stanley never put Baileys name on any of their planes while bailey was alive. so that would lead you to believe that at least the brass adjusting knob and the back iron are genuine and Bailey was known for not putting many marks on his planes, but he was known for marking the brass adjusting knob.
Bailey joined Stanley in 1869 the patent date on the brass knob is 1867 so that gives a two year time span when it was made.

Now the question who would put the brass knob and the back iron on this plane to possible mislead some one? Well my answer is no one they are there because they belong there.

Just a by the by Stanley and Baily only worked together for 4 years and there are plenty of signs of broken dreams and even hate plus a lot of time in courts over patent rights. Baily did go back into plane production and started a firm called Victor one of the planes he produced was called Defiance if i remember right it was a adjustable sole plane.
The names seem to shout something out,Stanley bought up the consesions for the firm and eventually bought Baily out.

In what can only be described as meanness years later Stanley brought out a brand of plane that would easily stand in quality next to the later handy man range and called the plane Victor.

Any way back to the plane if it was mine I wouldn't butcher it to make a scrub plane. I think this plane has done its time I would make a front knob and sit it on a shelf by my bench and every now and again take it down to use it just for the sheer joy.

 

[Corneel]

Stanley stamped irons, capirons and depth adjusters with Bailey's name from the get go. They didn't wait until Bailey was dead. So I think it sure is a Stanley plane. A Bailey plane overhere in Europe would be a true rare sight.

The flat frog receiving surface was used from the type 4 onwards (1874). This surface received two longitudinal "dados" with the type 6 (1888). Those all had the depth adjuster stamped with the Bailey patent and the capiron too. Somewhere in that time range the Stanley name appeared on the cutting blade.

 

[thetyreman]

there's been some very useful info here, can't thank you guys enough for the help!

I tried to see if the front knob from my 4 1/2 stanley fits and hey presto, it fit perfectly, so it's not a custom sized thread as originally thought, the screw that came with the no4 is too narrow, so that was the problem.

From what I gather this plane is a very early model then? definitely 1800s, either type 4, 5 or 6.

 

[Bedrock]

What I should have added to my post yesterday was that the front knob on the Winchester plane, similarly looked as though it was a replacement, being vaguely barrel shaped.

Was there ever a production period when the shape of the front knob was particularly vulnerable?

 

[Billy Flitch]

I`d like to thank Corneel for pointing out that Stanley used the brass knob and backing iron of Lenard Bailey until they replaced it with their own that is a fact I was unaware of. So there you have it a late Bailey or a early Stanley, what ever I still think its done its time.
As for early American tools being rare birds I cant talk about the Netherlands or would I say you would be tripping over them in the UK but my home town has had a direct connection with the USA for several hundred years and as a boy I worked with many carpenters that had American tools in there kit. They had them as a sort of badge of honour as if saying I`v done that run. Something to think about 50 years ago I worked with a 93 year old Shipwright Named George Calledwell who told me when he sailed into my home town at the turn of the century that the river was full of sailing ships waiting to get in. Georges original birthday would not be to far from when we are talking about the time of this plane being made.I make this point to show you its not so long ago as you may think.

Any way here is link talking about the partnership.https://virginiatoolworks.com/2012/04/2 ... t-history/

Bed rock when Stanley changed the design of the front knob to what is called the balloon shaped knob they did suffer from splitting it was in the 1930`s that Stanley solved the problem by casting a ring in the sole around the knob.

 

[Bedrock]

Billy - thanks for the information about the front knob splitting. I am beginning to regret not buying that plane. Apart from the botched replacement knob, it did look fairly original.

Mike

 

[thetyreman]

I sharpened the original blade and it's razor sharp, worked surprisingly well even without the lateral lever, it amazes me that such an old plane could work so well with just a few adjustments.

 

[AndyT]

I sharpened the original blade and it's razor sharp, worked surprisingly well even without the lateral lever, it amazes me that such an old plane could work so well with just a few adjustments.

That's the fun of old tools - the tools and the wood don't know how many years have passed - they just work the same way as they always did!