What type of 1ph motor

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quintain

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Hi
I may need to replace a possibly faulty motor for my home workshop on a very old and much adapted Dominion 12" Super Ser woodworker.
What type of new motor if it is needed should I possibly consider i.e. Induction or otherwise.
I do not understand what an Induction motor is or indeed if I need such, even after reading up on google search

Many regards, for any help at this stage.
 
It will take an induction motor not a universal motor which is like the motors used in routers, hand held grinders, sanders, shop vacs etc. Stationary motors are bigger and heavier and will usually be either 1400 (approx) RPM and 2800 (approx) RPM. Here both would be a little faster because of our 60hertz power. Single phase motors come in various sizes (hp/ kw) and can be flange mounted by bolts fitting into the end of the motor or to a baseplate on the side of the motor you attach to. Until you confirm it is the motor that is dead and not a switch or broken wire you won't know until you get the old one out to look at. If the motor was incorporated into the machine itself rather than being separate it may need to be repaired rather than replaced. You really should find someone with the electrical expertise to diagnose what the issue is and whether a replacement is needed or a rebuild required.

I hope I haven't added to the confusion.

Pete
 
I can’t remember what’s inside the 12” Dominion, good machines, I’ve restored a couple, but it was a while ago! The motor is buried in the bottom casting and is a lot of effort if memory serves to get at! Some older machines were made with custom motors, not a standard frame size which makes replacing them sometimes difficult. That’s what I can’t remember, what size motor it is.
You will probably need a 2.2KW capacitor start, capacitor run motor which will be on a 90 frame size. Do not buy a motor with a combined capacitor, I.e. only one as they have lower start up torque.
 
Hi
I may need to replace a possibly faulty motor for my home workshop on a very old and much adapted Dominion 12" Super Ser woodworker.
What type of new motor if it is needed should I possibly consider i.e. Induction or otherwise.
I do not understand what an Induction motor is or indeed if I need such, even after reading up on google search

Many regards, for any help at this stage.
The rating plate on the old motor should tell you everything you need to know. Try to get a picture of it.
 
Hi.the faulty motor is now stripped down.
The info on the plate is:
GEC Machine Ltd
Type BCC 2516/18C
V 220
Ph 1 Hz 50
Wo A (what is Wo)
RPM 1425
Rtg Cont
For Spares quote D.62205 EQ

I cannot see any indication of motor size.

I think this motor (I was given 2 x same motors) when it was given to me 30+++yrs ago was from an industrial floor polisher with forward and reverse switching.

I cannot find the spares list or repair guide online.
Any help would be great.
AND / OR what type of motor should I buy to replace it if it cannot be repaired.
The present/faulty motor was driving a 15" dia crosscut saw on the Dominion 12" woodworker
 
Hi.the faulty motor is now stripped down.
The info on the plate is:
GEC Machine Ltd
Type BCC 2516/18C
V 220
Ph 1 Hz 50
Wo A (what is Wo)
RPM 1425
Rtg Cont
For Spares quote D.62205 EQ

I cannot see any indication of motor size.

I think this motor (I was given 2 x same motors) when it was given to me 30+++yrs ago was from an industrial floor polisher with forward and reverse switching.

I cannot find the spares list or repair guide online.
Any help would be great.
AND / OR what type of motor should I buy to replace it if it cannot be repaired.
The present/faulty motor was driving a 15" dia crosscut saw on the Dominion 12" woodworker
Induction motors last a long time - how exactly is it faulty? Take a pic of the inside of the connection box.

Common failures of single phase versions include faulty capacitors and loose connections on the centrifugal switch. Both are easily repairable.
 
This tells you that the motor is a so called "AC motor" or "induction motor". Same thing.
These are big motors for machines. They run quietly. Are often totally sealed and are very reliable. They are different from the motors in your electric drill or vacuum cleaner which are noisy, very fast and have carbon brushes which wear out.
Yours is designed to run off domestic mains electricity and does not need an industrial "three phase" supply.
The RPM number tells us that it is a "4 pole" version of such a motor, which has less speed but more torque than the other common "2 pole" version.
Single phase AC motors contain devices called capacitors. These are an electrical component that looks like a plastic or alloy can, the size of a jar of spices. There are again a few different variations in the way these capacitors are used in the motor. Deema is recommending that you ask for a motor described as "capacitor start + capacitor run". Sound advice. This will have two capacitors in it of different ratings. One is used to boost torque and help the (big, heavy) motor get started. A switch inside the motor then changes over to a different value capacitor once the motor is running.
Your motor is old. It may well be designed in imperial dimensions. Modern motors are designed in a range of very standard metric dimensions so your challenge will be to find a metric motor to fit your machine. Fortunately, the power of a motor is related to it's size. Bigger = more powerful. Modern motors will be slightly more powerful than an old one of similar size most likely as this technology has been refined slowly over time so finding one of the right specifications (above) that is as close a match as possible in size is the way to go.
The physical size of motors is standardised by a body called the IEC, and a number called the "frame size" is used to indicate several physical dimensions. It works in a similar principle to shirt collar sizes - as the collar size goes up so does the chest measurement, arm length, body length etc.
Frame size actually represents the height to the centre of the spindle when the motor is mounted using it's feet. In mm.
As frame size increases, the spindles get thicker, the motors get fatter and longer, the size and spacing of the mounting holes in the feet get larger.
You need a table of IEC frame sizes (just google for one) to look up.
Lastly the spindle will be metric, not imperial, so the easy way is to change the pulley along with the motor, and that means learning about the sizes and shapes of V belts so that you can get a pulley that works with the other end of your machine.

There is a certain level of complexity in all this. I've simplified a lot. You'll need to understand all the stuff above and some more if you want to replace your motor yourself. Your first question should be, if I know nothing at all about any of this, how can I do the electrical work safely ?
 
Here is a IEC quick Reference guide to frame size
 

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An observation/question, based on a very small sample, so would be interested to know if it is true. Do older, heavier cast iron motors have a lower start current for a given output than do modern Ali-bodied versions. Seems to be true among the machines in my workshop.
 
When a motor starts up, the electricity sees with the rotor stationary a short circuit. There is just a length of wire with some inductance due to it being coiled. Once the rotor starts to turn simplistically it increases the impedance the electricity sees. So, at start, you get a high current which is called the in rush, which decreases quickly as the motor starts to spin. One of the biggest factors affecting how quickly this occurs is the inertia of the system. Basically the greater the mass and resistance the motor has to overcome the longer it takes to get moving and hence the bigger and longer the in rush current lasts for. Modern motors are designed to reduce the in rush.
 
So, it’s in the cross cut, so I’m guessing the motor shaft comes through and the blade is mounted directly on to it? Or is the blade driven through a pulley? With a 15” blade you will want at least a 2.2KW motor.

A picture of the motor and where / how it’s mounted would be helpful
 
Dear everyone
Please forgive my gushing start but all of the information you have supplied is invaluable.

I now know that an AC motor is the same as an induction motor, nothing that I came across on google search told me that...I thought they were 2 x different animals.
I have attached some pics to this post but still some more to come..i.e. how I support the motor with its double v belt flywheel onto the Dominion double v belt fitting.
I also now know that my motor has a centrifugal clutch that fell apart and caused the initial fault.
After painful stripping down of the motor, I think I have rescued all the parts but would welcome buying a new one if such was available.

I now need to research how the clutch operates i.e:
1...is the starter solenoid connected when the motor is idle
2..does the clutch throw in or out to break contact with the starter solenoid when the motor runs at speed.

AND yes I am poorly trained on electrical matters but strong on double/triple checking for safety. IMG_20210601_105739.jpgIMG_20210601_105933.jpgIMG_20210601_105739.jpgIMG_20210601_115332.jpg
 

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    IMG_20210601_110105.jpg
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An induction motor is a type of AC motor, yes.

That is a centrifugal switch that opens (breaks contact) at speed, then closes as the motor spins down to a stop. It’s designed, at rest, to switch in a start winding and capacitor (is this what you mean by ‘starter solenoid?) that gives the motor a kick in the right direction. They can be hard to find, so if you can reassemble that one that would be good.
 
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It's a long shot finding another centrifugal switch for the old motor but a motor rewinding/rebuilding shop might have one or be able to adapt one to get it running once more. If not you are down to finding a replacement.

Pete
 
Rather than change out the motor with all the related mechanical issues of imperial shaft to metric shaft conversion.
I would make an electrical starter system whereby the start capacitor is in circuit for as long as your finger is on the start button and you decide when the motor is up to speed sufficiently to let go of the start button. If as you say you electrically challenged then find a friend to do it for you. It needs a couple of push buttons and two relays.
 
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