What router bits do I need for this job?

[Thingybob]

They look like they are shallow cranked stormproof hinges , you might find the tennons are a bit loose when you remove the glass you can see the cracked paint at the join . You might be over engineering them with 4 hinges per frame , Google storm hinges then you will know what your looking at

 

[Thingybob]

Just thought you might like to see some of the router bits I have amassed over the years not expensive but I have made hundreds of feet of window beadings with some of them they are all tungsten carbide tipped never had one break up just haven't hammered them took it easy . You never know when you need to machine a certain profile the 50 set cost me £49.99 from a wood yard in Altrincham Manchester back in late 90s

 

[mrodent]

Just thought you might like to see some of the router bits I have amassed over the years not expensive but I have made hundreds of feet of window beadings with some of them they are all tungsten carbide tipped never had one break up just haven't hammered them took it easy . You never know when you need to machine a certain profile the 50 set cost me £49.99 from a wood yard in Altrincham Manchester back in late 90s

Thanks. Good to know how long-lasting these things can be if you treat them right.

 

[Ollie78]

Here's a photo which hopefully shows things: it shows the external "lip" going round the outside. It also shows the hinges fairly clearly, and to date I've never found any problem with "fouling" of the casement frames. Not sure about a "90 degree crank" - not sure what that means.

These hinges are I think a bit beefier than normal. Plus, as I shall be turning a lot of the currently opening casements into non-opening ones, my plan is to cannibalise these hinges from the future non-opening ones so that instead of 2 hinges per casement I can have 4 per casement for the ones will be still be opening (as I say, the new LandVac vacuum glazing panes will be substantially heavier than the existing ones).


View attachment 153331

Looking at those I would be very inclined to make replacements from new timber.

My reasoning is that they are pretty simple to make with no fiddly glazing bars or anything so once you have the setup correct you can make them quite efficiently. This way will be much cleaner and faster than the methods we have discussed earlier in the thread. You can make them all without disturbing the existing ones until you are ready to install as well.

I suspect that there will be some significant repair work required the the joints once you have attacked them with the router I speak from bitter experience of stormproofs, quite often the lip on the outside is rotten causing an awkward repair, though you might be lucky. Beware of the posibility of star dowels ( star shaped metal pins ) in the joints depending on age.

Also you can route the new channels for the draughtproof method of your choice into them, after a test fit but before painting, aiding with longevity. You can adjust the moulding so its just right and they will be crisp and clean to paint (as well as create a perfect glazing sealant line)

You have to weigh up the time, mess, materials and quality of the final job.
If someone asked me to do it I would definitely suggest new ones.

PS. don`t bother monkeying about with old hinges.
Ollie

 

[Windows]

How is your window project going, @mrodent?

 

[mrodent]

How is your window project going, @mrodent?

Slowly. The panes were delivered a few months ago. To date I have not yet removed the first casement.

Meanwhile I have been experimenting a bit with my router. I'm quite concerned that in fact the whole router plan might have a fatal flaw, i.e. too much mechanical aggro. As implied by Ollie78:

I suspect that there will be some significant repair work required the the joints once you have attacked them with the router I speak from bitter experience of stormproofs, quite often the lip on the outside is rotten causing an awkward repair,

All the wood I've examined so far is pretty healthy, considering that most of these casements are (I presume) the originals, i.e. 90 years old. But still. I think I'm playing with fire somewhat here. If everything is clamped down within a millimetre of its life the stress might be OK. So I hesitate and hesitate...

because the other alternative which I'm seriously contemplating now is to do this rabbet enlargement by hand. I have some woodworking/wood-carving skill and tools. It occurs to me that since the pane of glass will be sitting in a bed of special sealant/putty (Hodgsons Heritage Putty was recommended by the man who is the LandVac UK contact), the bottom and side of the rabbet don't really have to be absolutely perfect flats. I assume the casements are made from pine, so proper sharp wood-carving chisels should hopefully cut through like butter. This would be a lengthy process, obviously, but that doesn't scare me. I reckon I'd probably be able to carve one casement in 3 or 4 hours. Radio 4! ... I wouldn't have all the dust stuff, could even do it in my house. A few advantages.

However, the other need for a router (channel for the weatherseal strip) will have to be done with a router anyway... but I think the technical and clamping challenge there is somewhat less... These look good.

 

[Ollie78]

However, the other need for a router (channel for the weatherseal strip) will have to be done with a router anyway... but I think the technical and clamping challenge there is somewhat less... These look good.

I would stick to a Schlegel seal rather than the rubber bubble. AQ21 or 63 are very common but there are many different ones for different gaps and applications.
It's just nicer stuff .

Ollie

 

[mrodent]

I would stick to a Schlegel seal rather than the rubber bubble. AQ21 or 63 are very common but there are many different ones for different gaps and applications.
It's just nicer stuff .

Ollie

Thanks for the recommendation. Recommendations re brands for this sort of thing from someone experienced are so valuable!

Earlier in this thread people suggested this sort of profile (but I think they didn't realise this is a very simple application, just a bog standard casement).

My slight concern with this sort of profile is the likelihood that the edges might fray a bit over time, whereas a bubble seal doesn't actually present an edge as such to the (fixed) frame where it's meant to make the seal. Also that the ability to spring back ("memory") might decline over time. Maybe a good brand will be better than I imagine. This page suggests Schlegel have given matters a lot of thought.

I can imagine that the seals you suggest might cope better with a gap which varies slightly along the length, and maybe cold air is likely to get through more easily with a bubble seal.

Schlegel also seem to do an interesting one which doesn't have a "frayable edge".

hmmm

 

[Ollie78]

Thanks for the recommendation. Recommendations re brands for this sort of thing from someone experienced are so valuable!

Earlier in this thread people suggested this sort of profile (but I think they didn't realise this is a very simple application, just a bog standard casement).

My slight concern with this sort of profile is the likelihood that the edges might fray a bit over time, whereas a bubble seal doesn't actually present an edge as such to the (fixed) frame where it's meant to make the seal. Also that the ability to spring back ("memory") might decline over time. Maybe a good brand will be better than I imagine. This page suggests Schlegel have given matters a lot of thought.

I can imagine that the seals you suggest might cope better with a gap which varies slightly along the length, and maybe cold air is likely to get through more easily with a bubble seal.

Schlegel also seem to do an interesting one which doesn't have a "frayable edge".

hmmm

I wouldn't worry about the fraying of the edges. If you select the correct sized seal then it should be no issue. Somewhere on the Schlegel site is a selector where you can state the size of gap etc. and it will suggest a seal for the application.
These type of seals are everywhere in upvc, aluminium and timber windows and doors and are proven by now.
It depends where you put the seal as well, you could seal it around the perimeter of the casement on the flat part that sits inside the frame. In this application a wiping seal like aq 21 would work well. Or you could use the lip of the storm proof in which case a compression like 63 might be better.
Personally I would suggest the former as you are not relying on the handle to pull against it to seal and compress it.

Ollie