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For me woodwork is a hobby. Most thing that I make I end up giving away to friends or for raffle prizes at the coffee mornings at our golf club so they don't have to cost much.My latest box is made from mahogany that was pulled from a skip 9ft long 16inches wide so Iv'e plenty to go at. On previous boxes I used brass knobs on the drawers but this added to the cost, So I used the router to form the pulls on this one. Cost of this, about 50p for the drawer lining.

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Alan.
 
For me, it was a bedside cabinet for my MiL it was a thank you for her help in the last 18 months, looks ok,
cost me a week to get it all together and make it then apply its finish.

Before that a full sized floor to ceiling / all to wall wardrobe for a client, and in between I am
starting to build my dream workshop.

Also to bring in the beer tokens I've laid a fe laminate floors

K
 
I'm with Dibs. Probably one of the last few to go to an old-fashioned school where they taught old-fashioned woodwork and metalwork - or at least they did, to me, for the first few years that I was there (it was a compulsory subject for the first and second years IIRC, then vanished from the timetable unless you took it as an option for O-level. Which nobody ever did, as my school was fiercely academic and even the "thickos" were expected to do "easy" - and supposedly useless - subjects like economics and computing). By the time it reappeared on the curriculum, it had morphed into "craft, design and technology", and shortly after I left the school the two magnificent rooms devoted to those fine subjects (the metalworking room included lathes and a forge) had both been gutted to be replaced by something entirely anodyne and useless. There a probably interactive whiteboards in there now, but no tools - and no skills being imparted.

I was reasonably good with the school woodwork, largely due to a perfectionist streak I once had. Metalwork I was less keen on, because it was dirty and the noises grated on me. But although the metalwork teacher was a competent craftsman and a mediocre teacher, he managed to not only keep control of a class of 30+ overly-imaginative boys, he taught me all I needed to know about technical and engineering drawing (a skill I rarely need given my day job, but completely invaluable when it is required). As for the woodwork teacher, he had the same 30+ strong group of lads *and* armed us all with chisels and *still* I don't recall one single safety-related incident, not even using the lathe (OK, he kept the panel saw locked away and for his exclusive use, but still, you have to admire the fact that as well as being a good craftsman he was a great teacher).

In fact, now I think about it I learned so much in those two classes that was genuinely useful that I must have been taught for more than the two years I remember. Either that or they packed a LOT of teaching into those two hours per week. OK, what I can make now is pretty rudimentary stuff compared to the majority, but my handmade game boxes get admiring remarks whenever I take a new one along to my board games club. I might have learned a bit more over the last 12 months or so working with powered machinery, but everything I've made so far has been made using designs and techniques that I learned at school 25+ years ago. Knowing that Henry the Navigator was a Portuguese sailor, or that the Lake District was formed by retreating glaciers, has turned out to be chuff-all use in the real world, but when I finish my current kitchen trolley project I'll be scoring real brownie points from SWMBO. All thanks to school woodwork lessons.

Anyway, here's the latest box. For a card game with about 1,500 cards. And yes, I'd do better if I was doing it again, but all the routing of dados to hold the cards drove me a little nuts.

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Charlotte":2rnnfr46 said:
To answer Nick's question, I make stuff myself because nothing fits from a shop.

Really good point. The narrowboat project sounds amazing.

David and I were discussing that some people may feel reserved about making things, worried that people might judge them as not as good as bought stuff. Does that resonate with anyone? Does it take a leap of confidence to get over that?

Nick
 
Not as good as shop-bought stuff? No matter how bad some of my pieces have been, there's nothing like mass-produced tat from a high street multiple to make me feel good about my own efforts. I'm making my own kitchen trolley, for example, precisely because I know that it will look better and be a lot sturdier than the IKEA alternative (it ruddy well should do, given that I've spent three times as much on the timber today as the IKEA item would have cost me).
 
Richard D":21hed547 said:
Not as good as shop-bought stuff? No matter how bad some of my pieces have been, there's nothing like mass-produced tat from a high street multiple to make me feel good about my own efforts. I'm making my own kitchen trolley, for example, precisely because I know that it will look better and be a lot sturdier than the IKEA alternative (it ruddy well should do, given that I've spent three times as much on the timber today as the IKEA item would have cost me).

I didn't mean to imply a project wouldn't be 'as good as' shop-bought stuff. Sorry. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I was wondering if some people will compare our projects with shop-bought, and assume that shop-bought is better just because money has been paid for them. I suppose I was trying to tease out why woodworkers would make their own projects (especially as it's likely to cost more in materials), because that might give me clues how to tempt more people into woodworking. Does that make any sense??? It's late!

Nick
 
Hi Nick

Earlier you mentioned tool ****. I would agree that the emphasis of some on the need for expensive tools can put some off. It is posible to start in woodwork without spending a lot. However I think the woeful quality of the tools available on the high street can count against people continuing with woodwork. The beginner goes to B&Q and buys a plane imagining the work they can do with it but are immediately disappointed because they cannot get the tool to perform as they would like. So they give up in dispair, not realisinbg that it's the tool, not them, that is at fault.

As a professional woodworker I still get pleasure out of using simple well maintained hand tools, I believe that is what the beginner is also looking for. There is little opportunity to actually use tools nowadays and experience the simple joy of doing something with skill. The other attraction of woodwork is the self actualisation of knowing you have made something. That's partly why I enjoy teaching, the "I made this" moment when someone completes a project.

In the subject of teaching woodwork in school. I did woodwork classes at secondary modern in the sixties and have to admit I hated them. I didn't come to woodwork till later. However I learnt about face side and face edge and how to mark out and saw true. Methods which I now teach forty years later.

Chris
 
Did someone mention tool **** !! :tool:

I love tools and I love making things, not just out of wood, so the two are inseparable in my world.

Sometimes the difference between doing something yourself and paying someone else to do it is having the tool for the job. And there is so much more satisfaction when you've done it yourself.

Some people are self-motivated and will naturally have a go with no prompting. Others just need a gentle push, being shown what to do, lend them some tools or let them use your facilities.

I am always happy to lend tools to someone. They might mention they need something done like replacing a part on their bike or car and I will encourage them to do it themselves rather than take it to a "specialist", all they need is a little guidance and the right tools.

In answer to what I've made, loudspeakers, coffee tables, cupboards, mantlepiece, anything where there is a specific requirement that cannot be met from the ready-made market.

Just lately I made a mandrel for making pepper-mills on the lathe, same priciple as a pen mandrel but bigger. I used my engineering lathe for that.

My father made practically all our furniture when we were young because we could't afford to buy it and I was really pleased when I was old enough to use his shed!
 
yetloh":11xqa78b said:
Dibs-h":11xqa78b said:
Schools - I know for a fact that if it wasn't for my interests in woodworking, etc., my son would be grow up like the masses and not have a clue. Whereas when I was at school - woodworking and metalworking was taught, as opposed to the Design & Technology rubbish they probably teach now.

Dibs

p.s. Sorry if it seems a bit of a rant.

Can't allow you to getaway with that one Dibs. For me school woodwork was a complete waste of time, classes far too big for the teacher to manage so he concentrated on those who showed obvious ability. The rest mucked about, and absolutely no possibility of being inspired to be creative. I have seen Design Technology in action and it can be very good. It teaches kids about the nature of the materials they meet in the modern world and requires them to think about practical design requirements and the process of creating something useful. No sign of that in my woodworking lessons unless you happened to have a burning desire to make a bookend to a prescribed design. Those were certainly not the days so far as I am concerned. The reason I got into doing practical things despite having no involvement in them in my working life is that I had the example of my father.

Jim
Jim, If I could chip in here. As one of the last of a dying breed (aka the original old fashioned woodwork teacher) I started off teaching traditional woodwork and can honestly say that for most of the time, the students (girls and boys) enjoyed the experience. It didn't matter what was made...the mere fact that they could make something themselves and take it home to show mum and dad was enough. I very rarely had a peice of work that wasn't eagerly paid for and taken home, which was the measure of the type of work we did.

30 in a woodwork shop? :shock: :shock: :shock:...not in any school that I taught in. The maximum number allocated for H&S reasons was always, always, without exception...20

The subject then over the following few years developed into the ubiquitous 'Design & Technology'...and I tought that as well. It started off by being a mish-mash of traditional craft with the added complications of material and design considerations so that the result was a completely unweildy syllabus that was well nigh impossible to deliver adequately in the limited timeframe allowed (generally just a double lesson each week) My abiding memory is walking into a Yr10 class taken by my HOD :roll: where several of the students were attempting to scupt in mdf using rasps and sandpaper...the choking fog of mdf in the air was unbelievable. In fact, much of the stuff made was in mdf...there was little proper timber used.

Did D&T (and later 'Technology') work effectively?..not in my experience and I was there for a lot longer than you probably were Jim - Rob
 
I think there is a growing trend in the UK for people to become more self sufficient; the waiting lists for allotments, the proliferation of chicken runs in suburban gardens, the re-emergence to prominence of programmes such as Gardeners World and Countryfile. I think the old philosophy of 'Make do and mend' is definitely making a comeback. On the back of that I think traditional skills such as woodwork, home maintenance etc which in more recent times have been quick to be contracted in are also likely to see an upswing in interest, particularly in these times of austerity. I think the woodwork industry as a whole would do well to jump on the self sufficiency bandwagon and promote themselves hand in hand with the lifestyle that more and more people are moving towards.
 
I am in the same position as Shane and Dodge, I most of my time making things for clients and the rest of it trying to work through the list of jobs the wife keeps adding to.

One day I may get around to making the davenport I have always wanted to make.

Plus I have still got to make stock for the showroom, but people just keep ordering things.

Tom
 
With a house full of bought furniture I very rarely make stuff for myself except the odd bit of garden furniture, bookcases and DVD units to cope with expanding collections.
The stuff I do make is mainly for my two daughters and Grandchildren: kitchen table, storage units, bookcases, DVD units, boxes, pens, toys.
I make the odd tool like marking knives, marking gauges, hammers, planes etc.
I also have a small lathe and have been making a clock on and off for quite a time - but that's metal work. :)

I learnt woodworking and metal working at school back in the 50's (I have an O-level to boot) and have always dabbled in making stuff incl DIY household builds. It was also my father's hobby so you could say it's in the blood - my Great Grandfather was a wheelwright.

I like making things.

Rod
 
woodbloke":3u4r2e0c said:
Did D&T (and later 'Technology') work effectively?..not in my experience and I was there for a lot longer than you probably were Jim - Rob

I saw it as an outsider which enabled me to simply observe and also as an invited speaker on design, which clearly did not give me the amount of experience that you had. All I can say is that from my observations and opportunities to interact with pupils as a speaker, I felt that they would emerge from it better equipped to do practical things or pursue a design or making career in whatever discipline than I was. I was also enormously impressed with many of the pupils' creativity and ability to argue their case - two skills which received very little encouragement in my schooling in the '50s.

Jim
 
yetloh":qnm23zim said:
I was also enormously impressed with many of the pupils' creativity and ability to argue their case - two skills which received very little encouragement in my schooling in the '50s.

Jim
I'd be interested to know what type of school you were invited into and what sort of audience you were speaking to. My guess is that it probably wasn't the local bog standard comprehensive, which is where my experience was gained - Rob
 
Nick - you mentioned how things have changed over 30 years - certainly have for me. 30 years ago I was making things for flats/houses out of financial necessity - a bed, kitchen cupboards, bookcases - with the emphasis on salvaged (free) materials, and minimal tools.
But later on, a bit better off, it was the things that couldn't be bought ready made - a wardrobe to fit an alcove, a bookcase to fit a particular space, a shelf unit to fill the kitchen wall.
Then I got to the point where the house was fully furnished, so it was extras like a coffee table, a children's desk, a chair for the garden. Plus a few bespoke doors for family members. The next thing needs to be the jewellery box I've been dithering about for too long - I have to admit that the wood must be properly seasoned by now!
 
Nick Gibbs":pctosf76 said:
I suppose I'm delving into the reasons woodworkers make things these days. It's heartening, and not surprising, that it's because we gain satisfaction from it, but sometimes the whole tool **** thing seems to get in the way, and one can't help wondering how much making is done. David Savage and I were discussing how we can inspire people to take up woodworking. What might motivate non-woodworkers to produce something themselves?

For me it's A. Money and B. the unhealthy urge to master every skill (aka arrogance).

Woodworking is the final skill i've not really tried (except general joinery, hanging doors, etc).

I want to build a completely new kitchen. The kitchen I want would cost £30,000 and i want to spend £4,000, so there is only one other option! I will learn an awful lot in the process too!

As for the 'people being too busy' or 'leading busy lives' lines; IMO you will always find time to do the things you really want to do in life!!
 
>Was it through need, austerity or just desire to be productive?

Need and definitely austerity.
I needed a set of driveway gates to contain the latest addition to the family but I wasn’t confident about building something so large and so prone to movement. However the prices I was quoted last autumn were too expensive, from £600 to £950 excluding VAT for two 5’ 6” high, 6’ wide gates in softwood. These prices were just for the gates, the hinges, bolts etc were extra.
I either built something myself or did without.

Timber cost me under £150 from B&Q, fittings at £60 matched the cheapest quote.
My through M + T joints were a bit sloppy as cut but I tightened them up with some wedges.
Hardest bit was rounding off the tops of the uprights (a design idea from the wife so it had to be implemented). I have a small bandsaw but manoeuvring the uprights round this was impossible in my workspace, I tried with a jigsaw but the blade kept flexing and I couldn’t get a square cut in this thickness. I ended up cutting roughly to shape with a handsaw and then using a belt sander hand held vertically to shape the top back to my mark.

Gates from roadside
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Gates rear
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The customer
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Apart from the guitars and tools most of my work is restoration of beautiful old antiques back to their former glory and that requires entirely different techniques from new build designer furniture making.

I do have a WIP (protracted!) job for my daughter for her new flat...a spice rack.

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It's going to be slimline (against a wall under a shelf) and hidden (she likes streamline) but has to take loads of those standard supermarket jars...

Out of oak engineering flooring with ebony trim and tiger maple veneer inside...this will probably be my only attempt at bespoke furniture ever (thankfully!)....

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I'm not that good at making these boxy things but I'm sure she will like it!

Jim
 
yetloh":23ebt3n7 said:
Can't allow you to getaway with that one Dibs. For me school woodwork was a complete waste of time, classes far too big for the teacher to manage so he concentrated on those who showed obvious ability. The rest mucked about, and absolutely no possibility of being inspired to be creative. I have seen Design Technology in action and it can be very good. It teaches kids about the nature of the materials they meet in the modern world and requires them to think about practical design requirements and the process of creating something useful. No sign of that in my woodworking lessons unless you happened to have a burning desire to make a bookend to a prescribed design. Those were certainly not the days so far as I am concerned. The reason I got into doing practical things despite having no involvement in them in my working life is that I had the example of my father.

Jim

Jim

School woodwork for me was phenomenal. We used to have a 3 tier schooling system and I remember being around 10 and making badges, etc out of metal and enamelling them in a small kiln. OK not woodwork - but you get the picture. Later at the Comprehensive - woodwork didn't have more than 20 kids, and we where doing dovetails, boxes, coffee tables (with M&T's). We also had the use of the metal shop - lathes, gas brazing and I even did a fair bit of oxy-acetylene welding - all before the age of 16!

Yes I was probably one of the ones that showed obvious talent\desire so was encouraged. But I recall a lad there who perhaps would have been described as having behavioural issues, was in to motocross (had a few offroaders) and he made a trailer for his two bikes. All welded up himself (a 15 yr old at the time) and absolutely no issues in terms of messing about.

I'd spend most of my lunchtimes in the woodworking shop carrying on with my projects.

I remember early on in metalshop making those little wire figures sat on a swing\see saw that moved for a bit when pushed - bit like the ones you see at those street markets\fairs, etc. All on nicely made wooden bases. You had to design your own and work out the pivot\s, etc. so it's not like there wasn't any design element. But a damn site more substantial that sitting there discussing the merits of one material over another.

Dibs
 
I tend to make bespoke furniture that suits the customers requirements / house. I do now and again make furniture that I like. Always with the intention that every thing is for sale,not just for my personal use / pleasure.

A photo of a Sheraton style table that is near to finish. Not too concerned it is in oak, as I now have some mahogany to make another.

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