what exactly is this used for and how ?

[Dovetaildave]

I've seen these on sale many times and I still don't know what its for or how it would be used :?

Is it for marking out..........very short miters?
Is it sawing aid ..........that removes tooth set as you go?
Is it for paring.........index finger removal ?
What are the semi circle cutaways for......index finger rests ?


And in the "Preview" I cant get the photo above the questions

Regards,
Dave

 

[Droogs]

Looks like some sort of dovetail marking guide

 

[Cheshirechappie]

It's a mitre paring gauge. I think the idea is to clamp it to the workpiece by whatever method is convenient, then run the flat face of a paring chisel along the angle face (which you've carefully aligned with the marking out) to finish the mitre.

You sometimes see similar things craftsman-made in a hard wood - scraps of rosewood or similar - and sometimes tailored to a particular job. Arguably they're better, because the register face for the chisel is usually larger.

In all honesty, it's uses are not that wide. About twenty years ago, I bought one I saw in an antique shop. I don't think I've ever used it. Mostly, you either shoot mitres with a plane on a mitre shooting board, or just use a piece of wood mitred off at the angle you want clamped to the job as a chisel guide.

 

[Jacob]

It's a Preston mitre gauge
for pencil marking (not cutting) things like glazing bars etc (will span the rebate)

 

[Cheshirechappie]

If you put 'mitre paring gauge' into Google Images, you get pretty much exactly the same pictures that Jacob linked to. So if one of us is completely wrong, an awful lot of other people are too!

I think we can definitely agree that it's function is connected with mitres, though!

 

[blackrodd]

Preston Mitre Gauge it is,-
(And if you zoom in on the pic, you can read Preston)!
Regards Rodders

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/E-Preston-mit ... 7675.l2557

 

[Droogs]

well, i learned something new today. today was a good day

 

[Biliphuster]

Here is a video of Roy using a rosewood version to guide a paring chisel.

https://youtu.be/61Z7TSDOLkA (go to 15:30)

There a couple of different styles, I have a very nice cast iron Marples version which does come in handy (I find it more convenient than a sliding bevel if you just want to mark a 45, I also occasionally use it for paring the shoulder of a 45 angled tenon, where a shooting board and plane would be obscured by the tenon itself). The marples one looks like the modern Clifton

It lacks the step you see at the bottom of the brass ones patterned after Preston. I have never understood the step as it would preclude clamping it in a vice. I think the stepped type were meant to be clamped on with a G-clamp or similar to the top of a sticking board rather than held in a vice.

The square ones are also a complete mystery to me. I cant think of anything other than marking square corners that you would need one for.

Edit, here is a quick snap to let you see how it works, sorry for awful quality, but as you can see, a shooting board would be no good there.

http://imgur.com/caIj6HI

 

[Jacob]

The point of these is to mark up already moulded and rebated stuff as they span the mouldings, which can be difficult with a square or sliding bevel particularly as the marks may have been machined off. Hence the square ones.
NB for marking only, not for cutting, clamping, shooting mitres etc.
Can be really useful if you are hand making window frames with a lot of glazing bars if you didn't mark up 100% at the beginning or are using bought-in machined/profiled stuff.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I bought a couple of them for a chippie I worked with about 25 years ago - they were uncommon then, he hadn't seen them on sale anywhere for years. As J. says, he got them for making windows.

 

[t8hants]

I have two metal ones I inherited, I thought they were just for marking out.
I can see you could use them as cutting guides, but I think wood would be kinder on my chisels.
Thanks all..........good thread.

 

[Biliphuster]

The point of these is to mark up already moulded and rebated stuff as they span the mouldings, which can be difficult with a square or sliding bevel particularly as the marks may have been machined off. Hence the square ones.
NB for marking only, not for cutting, clamping, shooting mitres etc.
Can be really useful if you are hand making window frames with a lot of glazing bars if you didn't mark up 100% at the beginning or are using bought-in machined/profiled stuff.

I can see spanning the mouldings would make the square version useful.

Do you have any insight as to the purpose of the step at the bottom of the brass ones? Does the semi circular cut out have a function? I can't see the step helping to hold it, it just seems to limit functionality.

 

[Jacob]

The point of these is to mark up already moulded and rebated stuff as they span the mouldings, which can be difficult with a square or sliding bevel particularly as the marks may have been machined off. Hence the square ones.
NB for marking only, not for cutting, clamping, shooting mitres etc.
Can be really useful if you are hand making window frames with a lot of glazing bars if you didn't mark up 100% at the beginning or are using bought-in machined/profiled stuff.

I can see spanning the mouldings would make the square version useful.

Do you have any insight as to the purpose of the step at the bottom of the brass ones? Does the semi circular cut out have a function? I can't see the step helping to hold it, it just seems to limit functionality.

I guess it helps you to hook it on to the workpiece either way up. Circular cut - makes it easier to get hold of and slide along, perhaps?

 

[bugbear]

William Fairham's famous book shows it being used as a cutting guide, clamped in place.

EDIT; this is very similar to an illustration in George Ellis' book, but then I suppose they were documenting the same simple process.

EDIT2; it's even in Joyce!

There's an excellent article for those that want to learn about traditional sash window making techniques here;

http://hackneytools.com/2013/08/how-to- ... -templets/

including a link to a TATHS publication

http://www.hackneytools.com/wp-content/ ... ersion.pdf

BugBear

 

[Dovetaildave]

Excellent answer Bugbear, A question ive carried for years, seemingly solved in a matter of hours
First picture you show seems to be just the one. I googled William Fairham and his book is free on Gutenberg......Result !!

"Mitreing a Moulded Door Frame.—Fig. 333 illustrates the method of mitreing the moulded portion of a door frame where the joint is dowelled, not tenoned. A small wooden template is made out of beech or other hardwood, having its ends cut at 45 degrees. This template is placed on the rail, as shown, and held in position by placing both the rail and the template in the vice. The face of the template forms a guide for a wide chisel, and enables the worker to gradually pare away the moulding to the correct angle."

Having read the description above of its use, it refers to "Made out of Beech and held in the vice"......I presume the small Cramp shown is the "Vice", I do have difficulty with the picture matching the description. Wouldn't short grain become an issue with the long and short feet?

Embarrassingly I didn't reach for my copy of Joyce either, shame on me .....after some rummaging I see its a "wooden Mitre Template" page 229 fig 224 ?, without the second "Foot", the same one as found in the TATHS publication also. Much the same shape as Biliphuster's metal version.




Biliphuster; Maybe the perfect semicircle cutaways are allowance for a round section G-Cramp (Inspired by Bugbears first picture above), if used with particularly thin stock ?

How would one use this item with the long "foot" on top of the wood, the 45 would be inverted, would it be used horizontally instead?

Maybe as Jacob says, its a marking tool after-all, nothing to do with paring ?


Regards,
Dave

 

[Jacob]

....
Maybe as Jacob says, its a marking tool after-all, nothing to do with paring ?


Regards,
Dave

Well yes. Bugbear' thing would be wood.
But in any case mitering would normally be done freehand working to marks. BB's book examples are "gadgetisation" (not a new phenomenon!) and the often shown sash templates are relatively rare* - mainly because as with so many things it's easier and quicker without the guiding gadget, once you have the knack and a bit of practice.

But you could try using your marking gauge for paring - who knows, might be just the job?

*but not as rare as early sharpening jigs which are virtually unknown.

 

[deema]

The gauges are normally bought in pairs, there is also an internal gauge as well as the external gauge that has been shown. They were available from Axi last time I made by Clifton - however that may have ceased since they now no longer trade.

They are used for many things, however in my experience they are predominantly used as a pairing gauge / template for making any panel frame which has internal mouldings to produce a mitre joint at the corners. They are also often used to produce the mitred corner for hidden mitred dovetails. UTube Japanese woodworking and you will see numerous examples of this with wooden templates being used.

 

[Benchwayze]

Here is a video of Roy using a rosewood version to guide a paring chisel.

https://youtu.be/61Z7TSDOLkA (go to 15:30)

There a couple of different styles, I have a very nice cast iron Marples version which does come in handy (I find it more convenient than a sliding bevel if you just want to mark a 45, I also occasionally use it for paring the shoulder of a 45 angled tenon, where a shooting board and plane would be obscured by the tenon itself). The marples one looks like the modern Clifton

It lacks the step you see at the bottom of the brass ones patterned after Preston. I have never understood the step as it would preclude clamping it in a vice. I think the stepped type were meant to be clamped on with a G-clamp or similar to the top of a sticking board rather than held in a vice.

The square ones are also a complete mystery to me. I cant think of anything other than marking square corners that you would need one for.

Edit, here is a quick snap to let you see how it works, sorry for awful quality, but as you can see, a shooting board would be no good there.

http://imgur.com/caIj6HI

This is what mine is like, and I only ever used it for paring at 45 deg. E.g. Mitreing the beads on casement material, if I didn't scribe the joint.

HTH

 

[Jacob]

Wooden paring guides or metal marking templates, not the same thing.

 

[Benchwayze]

I can't see where you need a wide, flat surface for marking. For that I use a Moore & Wright's.

Okay, the surface on that gauge cum template is not all that wide, but it's much wider than the edge of a combination rule; if you see what I mean.
But remember, I'm not perfick! :mrgreen: