What do you look for in a supplier?

[lurker]

Byron,

I wasn't having a crack at you as I hope you realise.
However your buying sprees are here for all to see :lol: :lol:
Blimey I even know what you have for dinner :shock:

A shop would need at least 5000 Byrons ( within 30 mins max) buying ALL their stuff from the same place. Not gonna happen.

 

[ByronBlack]

Byron,

I wasn't having a crack at you as I hope you realise.
However your buying sprees are here for all to see :lol: :lol:
Blimey I even know what you have for dinner :shock:

A shop would need at least 5000 Byrons ( within 30 mins max) buying ALL their stuff from the same place. Not gonna happen.

You know what I have for dinner? Are you stalking me.... your name afterall is 'lurker' - hmm, now i'm getting worried!

Buying spree's? Moi? I have nothing on the professional gloat-artists that this forum harbors :lol: And to be fair, my tool purchases are relatively modest usually a purchase only comes from when i've flogged something else.. honest guv!! :lol:

I know you weren't having a crack, I agree with your points, this is why I feel there is a market for a hobby centric outlet, if I had one local I would love it, but alas I have to spread my woodie pounds around a range of suppliers.

 

[lurker]

Stalking you :shock:

Ted & Dave are sending regular updates :twisted: :twisted:

 

[ByronBlack]

Stalking you :shock:

Ted & Dave are sending regular updates :twisted: :twisted:

Now i'm concerned! I'll have to sweep the place for bugs and listening devices..

Hmm, thinking about it, I did wonder why my pants were in my sock drawer and vice versa.. and I did misplace a cheese sandwhich a week or so ago...

 

[devonwoody]

Byron
But doesn't some of the stuff you buy on ebb come from sources that couldn't be sold at normal retail/business outlets.

I had one or two agencies when I was a young man and on one occassion I had a good trade line at about 50% less than normal trade price because of cash flow.

So I went to see one of the biggest retailers in the Devon/Cornwall county and because I wanted to get my foot in the door I offered the goods to him instead of perhaps some loyal customers.

The owner of the business said, "sonny I only buy c..p you are wastinjg your time bringing that stuff to me, come back and see me when you have got you know what I mean"

I never did go back, but when I pass their carparks they are always full, you honestly have a job to park. (I'm talking hundreds per store)

A story a bit like the Gerald Ratner saga in a way.

 

[ByronBlack]

Byron
But doesn't some of the stuff you buy on ebb come from sources that couldn't be sold at normal retail/business outlets.

Sorry DW - it's post lunch and m'brain stops working - not sure I follow you..

 

[devonwoody]

Hi Byron, I also had the post lunch feeling and I lost the reason for posting on the thread.

I should have finalised my comment by stating; in this day and age I suppose I would sell any c..p on the web and not have to face a customer when loaded with something not quite kosher.

 

[Anonymous]

Tony used Charnwood because by luck they are close to his home.

I did not chose the Charnwood ONLY because it was close by, although this is part of the reason, I chose it because:

a) It is the same spec. andbuild quality as the axminster (in some places superior) - both are Chinese
b) It will cost me £200 less than the Axminster (hammer)

c) I have spent some time looking around and fiddling with it because it is close by.



If the company were 25 miles away (or possibly up to 50), I still would have visited the place and looked at it as I am spending over £500 and need to be careful that I am happy before buying

By the way Tony, whats happening to your old bandsaw :lol: :lol: :lol:

Already sold after several years of very good, reliable service (but you already knew that)

 

[sawdust maker]

Thank you again for all your advice.

After reading all entries carefully the reality appears that the business is not going to work. Apart from the large retailers, retail sales from shops appears to be a dieing trade. competition is so great and mark up so low that a large turn over is a must. New and better models of machines appear to arrive monthly so without a large though put you could end up with old stock which can only be sold at cost or a loss. The Net appears to have the edge on price and choice. Deliveries are so good. I ordered something from Axminster on Saturday and it was on my doorstep before 9am on Monday! It appears that those who can use the Net will, and they are the growing sector of the market. And I don't want to be ageist, it appears that it is mostly the 50s+ who predominately use shops.

It appears that tools and machines would be lost leaders with timber being the main earner. But storage of long lengths and the noise of machining could present problems. Profit could be made from finishing products and machine attachments but not enough to support the whole business.

I think there is still a way of entering the market but not though a retail shop. So a big thank you, and I think you may have saved me a lot of money.

Paul

 

[ByronBlack]

Paul. I wouldn't be dissuaded so quickly. The members on this forum represent a tiny tiny proportion of the buying public so is not wholly accurate in the ways people spend on money - but it's an indication nonetheless.

One thing about starting a business, is that everyone will till you it will fail. It's the way this country is setup, it doesn't support enterprise, it would rather we were all in our place being controlled by the social elite.

The bank manager will tell you that most businesses fail in their first years, business advisors will tell you the same thing, people on this forum who may have not done the research (me included) to know whether the business is viable will tell you it will fail.

YET - why are there others who DON'T fail? Workshop Heaven is an excellent example of this - they have a relatively small section of products but amazingly good service and seem to have carved a small niche for themselves in the market (you only need a miniscule slice of the pie to do well from it).

There are a ton of wood sellers on ebay that are small outfits yet manage to do it year in year out, so it works for them..

All i'm trying to say is that the establishment will always play down your chances of success so everyone can cover their own back and reduce risk (especially true of bank managers). It takes entrepreneurial spirit and motivation to prove people wrong, after-all this goes on every day in every corner of business, there are millions of successful people who make it even in the most volatile and competitive markets.

I wouldn't base my entire business research on this forum - take a wider view, speak to these retailers, some one earlier said that these kind of shops are closing all over the country - is that based on real numbers? How many are opening and being successful? We simply do not know enough without research to categorically say it will be a success or won't.

What will make it a success is YOU not the location, not what people want you to sell etc.. these are all factors sure, but it's YOU that will or will not make it a success.

 

[Gill]

Rather than going into a full blown business with dedicated premises, stock and so on, would it not be possible to start with one specialty that you do well and focus on this? You could operate out of your workshop and if the business really took off, think of expanding later. I know of one successful saw manufacturer who actually builds his own machines in a shed at the bottom of his garden. Okay, it's a big shed, but nevertheless it's a shed. He's never been short of customers.

Gill

 

[engineer one]

that's an interesting idea gill, however it does cause one problem these days in that many newer homes have restrictions on the usage as business premises.

unless the idea is a totally internet business, you need to have some customers come to you. difficult to arrange to have so many friends.

what has been interesting is that everybody has said that they rely on seeing feeling and touching, but then buy on the internet :?

i guess we are all then considering that ALL our tools are disposable. :roll:
recently woody had a lemon of a saw. if we progress this discussion to its logical extent, even axminster may no longer be able to provide the service they do at this time

overall though gill i think you are right, if anyone intends to set up a business, then the idea is initially, if you can part time, and with only a couple of products then as demand grows look for other areas.

paul :wink:

 

[Gill]

Most councils overlook the restrictions on use of domestic premises for business purposes so long as you don't upset the neighbours. Ours certainly does! We've got a neighbour who runs a cleaning business from home (with skips and wagons parked outside to prove it) and who even breeds dogs as a sideline! Another often has lots of cars around the front of his house which he re-sprays. He once got in trouble for producing odorous vapours, but he's more careful now. Then there's this guy who makes his own chocolate... I suppose the big concern with working from home would be insurance. After all, I presume Paul makes a bit of a noise when he's chopping wood , so the neighbours will be used to a bit of disruption .

I'm wondering if retail premises would actually be as important as retail opportunities. Having a mobile business which could attend car boot sales, open days, craft fairs etc might be a better way of reaching the public than being tied down in one spot.

Gill

 

[engineer one]

you are right again gill, it is just that living in london i become even more paranoid about jobs worths who will use the strangest laws to get you out of whatever you are doing

also some of the newer estates of supposedly freehold houses are in fact leasehold, especially many barrett estates, and this is where the restrictions often really bite.

as for car boots, friends went to one yesterday to sell for a charity, and after 6 hours had only made 100 quid, because every body wants to buy at 50 p :?

but otherwise i agree, except that so many exhibitions are really expensive now, unless a couple of you get together.

like you i agree that if you want you will find an outlet, and generally the so called professionals like bank managers ( professional, most couldn't run a p up in abrewery :twisted: :roll: think northern rock )
having no real business understanding do not know how important enthusiasm is.

why not try to market the things you want paul, in your part time, and see what happens.

all the best

paul :wink:

 

[keithhickson]

Paul, can I turn the tables slightly and ask YOU what you find LACKING in the woodworking arena. Something must have aggravated that little tickle of frustration to get you thinking about a business?
And whatever you decide to do PLEASE move further south :lol:

 

[Gill]

Hi Paul

I wasn't suggesting that Paul would make his money from sales to people who regularly attend car boot sales. That wouldn't be the market he was aiming for anyway :lol:. I was thinking more along the lines that a mobile specialist who can be relied on to be at a certain venue on a certain date will draw customers to him who otherwise might not attend that venue. Tony said he would have been prepared to travel to a retailer who could show him a saw. If he'd known that Paul's Peripatetic Products were soon going to be within traveling distance, he might have preferred to wait and deal with Paul instead, even if Paul was at a local boot sale.

Funfairs travel around and usually stay in a town for a weekend. They know that if they set down roots, their business would be uneconomic. Normally, hundreds of people wouldn't assemble at the venue where the funfair establishes itself. However, for those few nights there'll be plenty of people because they know it's something which they can only take advantage of infrequently. The people know when the fair will be there and they plan their social activities accordingly.

Once a 'round' has been established, perhaps a mobile woodworker's retail outlet might be viable. Of course, there'll be limitations as to what stock can be carried, but perhaps there's still an opportunity.

Gill

 

[engineer one]

i agree gill, but having done the exhibition round with my mates in the model railway field, it is really frustrating to spend literally hours selling to someone who then says i'll think about it :?

we both know what that means.

actually what you are suggesting is the business model that snap on and mag tools have used as well as most multi level marketing activities, in the motor trade also there is now forte oil products operating in the same way, maybe there is such an opportunity there.

i have personally often wondered whether the idea is to go into the local large shopping malls on a regular basis, but never needed to investigate whether this might be a worthwhile thing.

paul :wink:

 

[iajon69]

Thank you again for all your advice.

After reading all entries carefully the reality appears that the business is not going to work. Apart from the large retailers, retail sales from shops appears to be a dieing trade. competition is so great and mark up so low that a large turn over is a must. New and better models of machines appear to arrive monthly so without a large though put you could end up with old stock which can only be sold at cost or a loss. The Net appears to have the edge on price and choice. Deliveries are so good. I ordered something from Axminster on Saturday and it was on my doorstep before 9am on Monday! It appears that those who can use the Net will, and they are the growing sector of the market. And I don't want to be ageist, it appears that it is mostly the 50s+ who predominately use shops.

It appears that tools and machines would be lost leaders with timber being the main earner. But storage of long lengths and the noise of machining could present problems. Profit could be made from finishing products and machine attachments but not enough to support the whole business.

I think there is still a way of entering the market but not though a retail shop. So a big thank you, and I think you may have saved me a lot of money.

Paul

Paul

I hope the feedback wasn't too discouraging? The feedback that I gave wasn't meant to put you off starting a business just didn't want you to get carried away.
If you want to start a business then you haven't got to compete with the big boys straight away or provide the choice of machines/tools that they do.

You originally mentioned timber cutting and project planning - if you believe that these would be popular in your area then these are services that you can start your business with without a huge outlay. You can then ask your local customers what they want and what they looking for in a business.

You haven't got to have a web site straight away - yes a web site is desirable and can help sales, but to start with you can sell through an Ebay shop. The Ebay shop will be the cheapest option and will also give you an indication of what sells and doesn't.

What can make and probably will make your business a success is local trade and if you can offer something that the bigger companies can't then you will get sales and repeat business.

How about offering a machine set up service - if someone local buys a machine from you then you can offer to assemble and set the machine up for either a fee or as part of the price.
You'd be surprised the amount of people who would pay to have a machine delivered, assembled and set up for them - you would just have to find a price that both you and customer are happy with.

As previously mentioned there are ways of selling machines and tools without having loads of stock but the profit margin isn't very good.

It's not impossible to make a success of the business, just not as easy as a lot of people think.

Ian