What do you look for in a supplier?

[engineer one]

from a personal point of view i wonder what people mean by a modest premium when i comes to price??

if you take dewalt as a product range, it is cheaper for a preferred dealer to buy in small quantities from a wholesaler, than direct :? because dewalt have a strange attitude to their retailers. that's why some have turned to festo.

i would suggest that the most important thing you could do is find premises which are not in the main shopping area, so you have lower overheads, and decent parking, then employ a couple of experts, and offer special days for different things.

your idea about project help is good, but how are you going to do it
you'll need a computer and a decent piece of software as well as sketch up.

it is hard work, and you need to be careful about what you stock, and how you advertise so that people who want to really specialist stuff in your area know where to come, otherwise you will end up with lots of dead stock.

biggest problem seems to be that people won't pay for quality in a retail outlet no matter what they say :roll:

paul :wink:

 

[Kane]

Why would you pay more in a retail outlet when you can get the same quality, in a lot of cases, much cheaper from the comfort of your armchair? It's a fact that disposable income is restricted and hoping that people will travel miles to see a demo and then buy a bit of kit in sufficent quantity to keep a shop alive isn't realistic. As for hands on letting the customer use an unfamilar bit of potentially dangerous equipment is going to be fraught with health and safety and liability costs plus your shop could quickly become stocked with effectively second hand kit because not everyone will want to try out the particular tablesaw, planer, thicknesser etc that you have available and then you'll get people wanting to do a comparison on three different makes of a planer - and that's without thinking about the timber :shock:

 

[devonwoody]

Have you got a big enough potential customer buying area,

Otherwise you have got to spend at least 16% of revenue on national/regional advertising of your products, Then need transport or delivery services.

Capital investment required for stock and at what cost.

 

[matthewwh]

Hi Paul,

You’ve certainly set off on the right foot by asking your customers what they want and listening carefully to what they have to say. It sounds obvious, but too many entrepreneurs don’t do it. Some of the best selling products that we carry at Workshop Heaven were originally suggested by customers.

Make a business plan and use it; refer back to it constantly, changing it as you get new ideas. This really helps you to maintain an overview and keep the details in perspective.

Know your customer; in our case Mr Average is a 30 - 50 year old family man who is well aware of when someone is trying to pull the wool; it is much better to bowl them over with excellent products, good old fashioned service and attention to detail.

Don’t assume your competitors are hostile; many of us understand that competition is good for the craft as a whole and therefore all of our businesses too.

If you want to have a chat, feel free to give me a call on 01295 780003.

 

[Anonymous]

This brings me to project planning. No one made any comments about this. Paul

Sorry Paul, should have commented on that.
Basically, i don't think project planning is a viable service in a shop. would imagine that a lot (most?) people will enjoy the planning process (sometimes more than the building) on smaller projects as it is often the most creative part of the whole build.

Also, bear in mind that for large installations such a kitchens, B&Q, MFI etc. offer project planning for free

 

[brianhabby]

Hi all

Without a doubt, service counts these days and should keep you a steady flow of regulars.

As for those that will come into your shop to have a look and then go away and buy online, unfortunately, as annoying as it is, you will have to accept it - I don't think there is anything you can do about it. The only thing I would say is that you will learn to recognize some of them after a while and when you do, try to close the conversation because you will know by then that you will not make a sale.

We have exactly the same problem in the camera shop, someone will spend ages discussing all the pros and cons of different models only to say at the end "Okay, I'll think about it and let you know". You know full well that you're not getting that sale.

It's worse when they buy online, get a problem, and then come and expect you to sort it out - and yes, it does happen quite a bit.

As for me, I like to use my local yard because they are so helpful and while I know that I am paying a bit more sometimes, I don't mind because I am paying for a service. I also like to shop via mail order for the choice that I get, so the comments above about a comprehensive choice are important to keep your customers shopping locally. Of course you can't stock everything and only experience will tell you what you should stock - but never ever run out of good service, it'll reward you over and over.

regards

Brian

 

[JFC]

When you say a hobbiest shop do you not want the trade in there ? Im asking because they will come and buy alot of timber if its what they want . They wont want to pay retail rates either but will spend many thousands of pounds a year if you can supply what they need . I think i'm picking up on BBs post here as to why he thinks he gets the pick of the bad bits . I get a phone call when a new load of timber is in stock so i can pick what i need . If i go in and i find rubbish i tell them and they order a new load .I also take the material that is bowed or twisted if i can use it for short lengths making more room for more timber .

 

[engineer one]

thinking further about this i would suggest you consider seriously taking over an existing business, if you are prepared to go further.

although it might be more expensive than what you have in mind, you will save a bunch of money and time in other ways.

1. brand building
2. existing loyalty
3. knowledge of customers
4. existing cash flow that ensures you stay afloat whilst experimenting.
5. less need for extensive personal guarantees on property leases etc.
6. easier to deal with suppliers as a known company.

there are more, but they should get you going

paul :wink:

 

[keithhickson]

When you say a hobbiest shop do you not want the trade in there ? Im asking because they will come and buy alot of timber if its what they want . They wont want to pay retail rates either but will spend many thousands of pounds a year if you can supply what they need . I think i'm picking up on BBs post here as to why he thinks he gets the pick of the bad bits . I get a phone call when a new load of timber is in stock so i can pick what i need . If i go in and i find rubbish i tell them and they order a new load .I also take the material that is bowed or twisted if i can use it for short lengths making more room for more timber .

It will be a difficult juggling act to balance both sets of needs. I've stopped shopping in professional catering suppliers for that reason. I consider myself to be a reasonable amatuer home cook and my needs are smaller than the local tradesperson but still add to the coffers of profit. I'm never going to buy a dozen saute pans, but the mark-up of the one I want will give the retailer more profit. I therefore shop online (sorry it happens due to lack of suppliers ready to deal with me on a 1 to 1 level) or if really pushed a Major department store.
I see the same problem with woodsupplies. I must admit surprise when meeting one of the forum members who has this as his profession, he had the same problems in being treated in a similar fashion at some suppliers because he didn't want to deforest half of Brazil at one time (my words not his). IF you can balance trade and hobby I think you would be gauranteed a healthy business. Braced for flak!! :wink:

 

[beejay]

I am thinking of opening a woodwork supply business selling to local hobbyists.

If you can be sure you will have a large and regular enough flow of local hobbyists then most of the others feedback applies. Just be sure that the venture is commercially viable for your area and be prepared to make little or no profit in your first year.
Good luck.
beejay

 

[lurker]

Well, everyone is goading you on, so here is the cold water.

I reckon you are on a hiding to nothing!
You'll never get the turn over for the stock you need to hold.
All these folks who are saying they will flock to you won't put their money where their mouth is, because there is no way you could carry enough stock at reasonable prices to satisfy everyone.

East Yorks have quite a few "shops" already but the places I've been in seem to have a profitable internet business in the background.

How many people would live within a 30 minute catchment?
What proportion of them would be woodworkers
What proportion of that proportion would be your (rather than the barns) clientele? How much would they then spend annually.

I visit John Boddys every time I pass by, but the prices make my eyes water and I rarely spend more than £20 and then only cos I need it quick.

I'll admit to handling tools at these places and then buying from Ax etc. -all those folks tut tutting saying they don't are either liars or millionaires.

Sorry to be harsh but there is a good reason why shops like this have shut in their hundreds and you will not reverse the trend.

 

[iajon69]

I would think twice before delving into the power tool market – the profit margin on most power tools is ridiculously low and to get any decent deals you have to purchase 5 or sometimes 10 of the same item leaving you with a large amount of stock that can take years to shift.

Dewalt has already been mentioned and they’ve become a right nightmare to deal with, 2 years ago we had 3 fairly large display stands full of Dewalt tools now we have none. We still deal with Dewalt but only buy items that have been ordered so we are not stuck with the stock.

It’s great to be able to offer customers the facility to come and try tools and hear that some customers would be prepared to pay a little more for this kind of service but from personal experience there are not enough customers or potential customers to make this a profitable option.
Too high a percentage of people will come and look but then purchase from either the internet or another shop locally that haven’t got tools on display that can be played with but have got cheaper tools!

Then you’ve got the problem of spare parts – we’ve been waiting for a part for a Dewalt drill for 3 months. They’ve sent the wrong part twice and now informed us that there are no parts in the country and it could be another 6 – 8 weeks before we receive the part so we have a very unhappy customer, fortunately he understands that it’s not our fault but Dewalts and that no dealer in the country has this particular part in stock – and this is not a one off incident, it’s happening a lot more and not just with Dewalt (but they are the worse).

If you want to sell tools then I would think about dealing with a distributor that doesn’t deal with the public direct but only supplies trade. This way you can offer a wide range of tools without having to hold a lot of stock. The one that we use offers a next day delivery can supply pretty much anything for the workshop and then they also deal with any warranty issues. If you want any further information please feel free to send me a PM. The profit margin isn’t great but everything is straight in and out and no worries about stock.

Good luck with your venture and just be prepared for a bit of a shock when you see what the profit margins actually are on most items used in the workshop!

Ian

 

[Anonymous]

Lurker's comments are very valid - I like your idea, but would be surprised if it were successful unless there are no DIY sheds within 50 miles of you and a great many people who wish there were.

Of course, these days, most shops do well if they have a web presence as well as the actual shop.

I bought a new bandsaw from Charnwood yesterday (in preference to Axminster) because they were very nicely priced, offered me a discount as a regular customer and most important of all are situated nearby - a local supplier.

I first realised they existed because i found them online.

 

[lurker]

Tony used Charnwood because by luck they are close to his home.
Move either of them 25 miles and he would have more likely bought the Ax.

I wouldn't mind betting the Charnwood get less than 10% through the shop door. I live 7 miles from them and have never bought from Charnwood.

Plan my first visit this afternoon :lol:

By the way Tony, whats happening to your old bandsaw :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[engineer one]

but in part one tends to think of charnwood as a non retail outlet, since most of their products are available through other outlets, which does i think change ones view.

paul :wink:

 

[keithhickson]

I think then that the answer is stick to wood supplies, and not just exotics good old fashined real wood that I can buy in single pieces with maybe a cutting service and leave the tools to the big boys. My opinion and I'm sticking to it.*





* All comments and opinions are likely to change

 

[RayUK]

What do you look for in the suppliers you use?

1: Local - within 10 miles - I'd rather drive the 10 miles, spend a bit more (compared to mail order) and get a decent service and I have someone I can go back to and shout at

2: Reasonable display - doesnt have to be massive and must be useable by the prospective customer. Hands on please! I'll bring my own bits of wood if necessary,

3: Stock levels aren't all that important IF they are local and can get the larger bits of equipment within a reasonable time. (48/72 hours).

4: Someone who is going to deal with me in a manner at least as good as the manner I deal with MY customers.

 

[ByronBlack]

Jason - so thats why I always get the bent and knotty lumps of wood, because you've snaffled all the good stuff!!

In all seriousness though, you have a valid point, I think most timber merchants do pander to the trades and give them preference over the hobbyist, which is perfectly fine as they spend much much more, so I think a smaller hobby outfit would be a great thing to have.

I've now spent the best part of a £100 on wood from ebay, and every board I have received has been excellent! Much better than I get from EO Burton (despite I get good service from them generally). It's also much cheaper even including the delivery charges. I recently bought 7 smallish boards of rippled sycamore for £20. Each board would have cost me around £10 had I gone to a timber-yard.

I also got a lovely massive (108") board of through and through sycamore for just over £30 - couldn't even source that locally!

So a hobby wood outlest IMO would do really well, espeically if they had a web presence.

My two favourite dealers in general at the moment are Workshop Heaven and Classic Hand Tools - both for their emphasis on quality products, but also because there is a good personal level of service. I also like that WH sell small billets of exotic wood that I can actually see before buying - I can imagine an extended range of boards and sizes priced accordingly would do well.. heck I may even start something myself I like the idea so much

 

[lurker]

Byron's post proves exaclty what I mean:

He gets good local service from Burtons but still uses the bay for a bargain.

From his numerous posts we know he never buys the big stuff from a local supplier - always Ax & others.

Byron - now be honest: total up all your woody purchases in the past 3 years then divide internet to over the counter, from what I know (via your posts) it must be at least 1:10 most likely 1:20 in favour of internet.

And the rest of us are just the same, even though we dream of the corner shop service we have no intention of supporting one.

 

[ByronBlack]

Lurker - you are a naughty boy, making sweeping assumptions is a sticky basis for a discussion.

The reasons why I bought the wood on ebay and not EOB is because like I said, they do not stock it (sycamore, and some spalted maple)! Also, the boards I get from EOB are bought blind and are often in need of a lot of machining with a fair amount of wastage, whereas if I see the boards I need then it makes sense for me to get these elsewher if EOB will not let me look at the boards before buying.

In terms of wood purchasing, I would say it's about 25 to 1 in favour of local suppliers. I always either source my wood from a builders merhcant 5 miles from me, or hardwoods from EOB which is about 15 miles from me. I've also bought quite a lot of tonewood from a small supplier in kent in preference to others due to the service etc etc..

As for tools; hand power-tools i've bought locally, my festool stuff i've bought from a number of suppliers as recommended here over the phone, my triton was bought from a local essex supplier. I do however prefer to use axminster for run-of the mill stuff because; 1. they actually stock it, and 2. their service is superb - nowhere locally to me can offer that, if they did, I would love to go and pick it up from a shop rather than having to wait for deliveries.

I do not have a decent local too shop where I can order machinery or hand-tools, I think the closest to me is Classic Hand Tools, and thats about an hour and half away (i've ordered stuff from this website though).

So I think you are being a little unfair with your assumptions, BUT I do understand the points you are making in general, they just don't always apply across the board.