What cordless drill to choose from?

[Phil Pascoe]

If you're only using it occasionally then I would recommend Ni Cad. they can be stored indefinately and will take 1000 cycles with a good hour charger or up to 3000 with a 15 min pulse charger. You have to follow the proper charging regime; never run flat -charge when they weaken .Don't stall the drill overloading it or 'winching' in huge lag bolts.Don't 'top up' batteries
You might want to ask a few long term Lithium users opinions - the chemicals in them degrade with time
Matt

Sorry, but you've contradicted yourself - charge when they weaken.............don't top up. You can only do one or the other.
I wouldn't have thought you could store any of them indefinitely, let alone Ni Cads - there'd be less reason for moving on and developing others: unless you meant they can be stored indefinitely charged........and you certainly can't do that.

 

[rpfn140378]

I don't think anyone believes Li-Ion lives forever, but in terms of memory and self discharge (particularly the latter) they are far superior for my needs (sporadic use at a moments notice).

If you're using them daily, draining them before charging, have enough batteries (or a fast enough charger, although fast charging can shorten battery life) and enough self discipline (or a timer) to charge them "just in time" then I'd happily accept that there may be very little difference and there would be a major cost benefit of avoiding Li-Ion.

In my case, my old Ni-Cad and Ni-Mh batteries weren't holding a charge for more than a few minutes, so I felt I had 3 choices (other than not replacing them and using mains/hand power):

1/ Ni-Cad or Ni-Mh from a "good" manufacturer (+ve: option to buy Li-Ion batteries later if/when prices drop, -ve: memory and self discharge, particularly given my usage pattern)

2/ Li-Ion from a "good" manufacturer (-ve: price, which would limit the number of spare batteries I could afford)

3/ The Axion kit (-ve: build quality, possibly limited availability of spares, +ve price/bang for buck, 2 drills, 4 batteries in my kit, no memory or self discharge)

I chose what worked for me and have no regrets but, as with most things, other people can make a different decision and still be right

I really like your idea of having a timer to charge the batteries just on time, never thought about it.

 

[rpfn140378]

I have found in this topic that everyone has their own opinion about nicads and lithium, honestly I was expecting everyone to say to go for the lithium ones instead of the nicads.
In my situation I probably will use it a lot once in a month and then not using it for 3 months. For the prices I see around, expensive makes with nicads and some cheaper makes with 2 lithium batteries for a good price, it is hard to choose …

 

[Phil Pascoe]

No ones mentioned NiMH batteries?

 

[Shrubby]

Sorry for the delay in getting back on this
To avoid confusion on Ni-cads;
topping up;using the drill for two minutes and then putting the battery back in the charger 'to keep it topped up' very bad for Ni-cads
Charge when they weaken; if you look at the discharge graph of a subC Nicad it will put out 1.2volts almost to the point where it is exhausted when the graph will drop off sharply. It's best to charge before the cells go below 1volt each - this is easy to estimate when using the drill - you notice it has become weak
For the original poster who wants a reasonably priced drill which will have a long lifespan with sporadic use I think it's a good solution
Matt

 

[cadders75]

I have a set of 14.4V Makita Nicads, driver, drill-driver and Impact driver with a couple of the cheap Screwfix Site batteries as spares. I've had these for 5 years now and one of the 1.3A batteries is now starting to weaken but they have been pretty bullet proof with the heavy DIY work I have been doing, the charging pattern pretty well following Shrubbys suggestions.

 

[Bills Elm]

If it's quality you want and not to heavy in my book there are only two!

Panasonic 14.4

Or if money is no object Festool 14.4

The rest don't come close we use them all in work and these are by far the best in every way!

Bill

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Maybe those two are more common where you are than where I am - in all the hundreds and probably thousands of battery drills I've seen, I've never seen either of them.

 

[eribaMotters]

A couple of months ago I replaced my 12v Makita drills and NiCd batteries. One was 6 years old, the other more than 10. I had replaced a couple of batteries over time but the those that went with the drills were still holding a charge well. I always ran the batteries down untill they just started to drain, and always let them cool down after charging. My use is sporadic, some weekends and evenings is very heavy and then nothing for a few weeks. It was the drain down over the few weeks of not being used that has lead me to Lithion Ion batteries.
My use is in the workshop, not on site, and so I went for the 10.8v Makita. The drills are small and perfect for my needs. I bought the pink bodied breast cancer model for £50 each with charger and one battery from http://www.tools4trade.com/. [no longer in stock] I went for two and a couple of original Makita extra batteries [£30 at the time] as I find this suits bench work. I am very pleased with them. I also replaced my 12v makita saw with a new 10.8v that uses the same batteries.

Colin

 

[Bills Elm]

Maybe those two are more common where you are than where I am - in all the hundreds and probably thousands of battery drills I've seen, I've never seen either of them.

Well here's a link to them, have a look for yourself...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Panasonic-EYC ... 2c6965659f

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FESTOOL-T15-3 ... 2a21e15348

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Looking at the price, it probably explains why.

 

[o0dunk0o]

Panasonics are great drills I've been using one professionally for nearly 10 years (same drill and batteries, coming to the end of it's life now)

http://www.angliatoolcentre.co.uk/panas ... id599.html

I was once told that the reason that they are so good is that there are only 2 companies that make rechargeable battery cells and panasonic are one of them, obviously they take the cream of the crop i.e all the cells produce 1.2v something that only festool and hilti also do (and pay a premium for)

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Sorry, your last sentence is a little unclear - can you re-word it, please?

 

[o0dunk0o]

Sorry, your last sentence is a little unclear - can you re-word it, please?

Sorry, posting too quickly with a few drinks in me :roll:

When cells for batteries are produced they're not all the same voltage due to minor imperfections in the manufacturing process, they should be 1.2v but could be significantly less or slightly more.

Panasonic make up their batteries from cells that are all 1.2v making a 'balanced' battery. The only other firms doing the same are Festool and Hilti, as they buy their cells in they pay a premium to ensure all the cells are the same voltage, this has an effect on they final price of the product

This was explained to me during a chat with a Festool rep a few years ago and relates to the NiMh batteries. From experience it does have an effect on the life and effectiveness of the batteries, as I say I've got a drill and batteries that I've been using for about 10 years.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Thanks. I was in NZ about 15yrs ago with my bil , and at that time, the workers in Auckland used a place that cut apart the original cases and replaced the cells.
Apparently 90% of the cells were made by Panasonic or (I THINK) Sony. This was irrespective of the make or price of the tool.

I thought the voltage output was governed by the chemical reaction rather than the quality or price of the cell? I brought De Walt stuff home with me at that time because NZ was so much cheaper.

 

[o0dunk0o]

Thanks. I was in NZ about 15yrs ago with my bil , and at that time, the workers in Auckland used a place that cut apart the original cases and replaced the cells.
Apparently 90% of the cells were made by Panasonic or (I THINK) Sony. This was irrespective of the make or price of the tool.

like I say Panasonic is one of 2 firms making rechargeable cells so everyone would buy their cells from either Panasonic or the other firm

I thought the voltage output was governed by the chemical reaction rather than the quality or price of the cell?.

It is governed by the chemical reaction, but all cells aren't created equal, all the cells are the same quality it's just festool and hilti pay a premium to select all cells the same voltage, Panasonic can of course just choose what they want.

Dewalt, Bosch and Makita pay to get something like 80% of the cells the same voltage

ryobi pay to get say 60% of their cells the same

B&Q just get a random selection.

Like I say this was told to me by a Festool rep I'm not an expert on the subject, but my personal experience has shown it to be true

I've had drills from Festool, Makita and Dewalt along with my Panasonics and only the Festool lasted anything like as long as the Panasonic

 

[Bills Elm]

Like I said Panasonic or Festool are the best! "full stop!" imo, save for maybe Hilti, none else come close if you intend to use them in an industrial everyday all day capacity, i have used all the top makes at one time or another and they are good but not as good as the above mentioned two, I'm only a lowly joiner and I'm not affiliated with any company I'm purley talking from experience with these tools but you can make your own mind up.

 

[mind_the_goat]

If the cells are selected for matching terminal voltage then if would only make sense if the tests were done under load when the cells internal resistance would have an impact on the voltage. This should then ensure that all the cells discharge at a similar rate and require the same amount of charging. Once the cells start to differ then individual cells will be loaded and charged at different rates which then decreases the life of the whole pack. Unlike chargers for AA cells, which can operate on the individual cells, the cells in a drill pack can only be charged in series, this also makes it harder for the charger to detect 'full' charge, matching them will help with this as well.

 

[rpfn140378]

Hi guys.
Just an update about the cordless drill. I ended up buying the Hitachi DV18DCL2 18V 1.5Ah Li-Ion Cordless Combi Drill in B&Q in January with 15% off so I just paid around £85.00. I have been using it already in part of my flat refurbishment and I'm really pleased with it, nice piece of kit. Thanks anyway for your ideas and advices

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Just a thought on quality of battery manufacture - these were single use batteries - I was given a device that was a few years old but still sealed and unused, and I thought (on a whim) to test the Duracells that were in it. They were a year out of date, so bearing in mind the life expectancy I expected them to be flat. One measured 1.309v and the other 1.308v - that, I'd have thought is very ,very tight quality control. I've done this with cheap batteries, and they've been way further apart. If the same applies to rechargeables, it would go towards explaining the cost difference.