Welding hss

[graduate_owner]

Hi all,
I was thinkng of making some woodturning scrapers by welding a section of hss to a secton of mild steel. Is this feasible? I was thinking of mig welding - would that do the job? The welded area wouod be about 4" from the workng tip.

If mig is possible, what wire / shielding gas would I need? If not mig then could it be done with tig, and again what gas / filler rod would I need? ( I may be able to get access to a tig welder plus operator).

K

 

[dickm]

Not a kowledgeable answer at all, but my gut feeling would be not to do it. Joining dissimilar metals, just not sure how strong the weld would be, even with careful choice of electrode and a skilled welder. But someone with more metallurgical knowledge will be along and can give an authoritative answer. Years ago, when young and foolish, I welded a broken carbon steel bowl gouge and it survived, but would certainly not do it now.

 

[marcros]

i would doubt that you will save any money if you were to make them this way. i would just buy an unhanded one from ashley iles.

if you really wanted to make a tool, I would make a carbide tipped tool. plenty of tutorials around for that.

 

[Rorschach]

Usually HSS or carbide is silver soldered onto mild steel for making tools. Can't say for welding.

 

[blackrodd]

Usually HSS or carbide is silver soldered onto mild steel for making tools. Can't say for welding.

As above, I would have thought brazing or silver solder to join HSS and Mild steel, in the same way that TCT blades are just a strip of TC, and brazed to the mild steel carrier.
We used this method to join the large bandsaw mill blades together after they had been "lapped" or tapered.
Heat in the right place and a good quality flux are among the important factors.
Rodders

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yes. Also if you have a lathe or a mill, the section required for (most) scrapers is large enough for a little mechanical jointing as well, like a small t & g, which would take impact a bit better. For the bother though it's probably cheaper to braze or bolt on tips to a piece of BMS. (imho )
Actually, thinking about it with a scraper you could well have an overhang of four inches - not a good place for a joint, right on the pivot.

 

[graduate_owner]

Thanks gents,
I think it will be hss tips on a mild steel shank, either brazed or fixed with a bolt. I read somewhere that a sharpened masonry bit can be used for drilling hss.

Has anyone tried drilling hss with cobalt steel drill bits?

K

 

[Lons]

I read somewhere that a sharpened masonry bit can be used for drilling hss. Has anyone tried drilling hss with cobalt steel drill bits?K

Didn't work for me!

I just received a solid cobalt bit I ordered but haven't tried it yet. I need to drill holes in a number of 3mm thick HSS spindle moulder block cutters. I'll let you know how I get on once I get around to it.

 

[graduate_owner]

Lons, I will be very interested to hear how you get on.

K

 

[woodpig]

if you want to make some cheap tools, as said earlier, just buy some carbide inserts and bolt them to some mild steel bar. Quick and cheap to do and the carbide will stay sharper a lot longer than HSS. You can even touch them up on a diamond plate when they dull.

 

[chipmunk]

You might be interested in this thread...
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/homespun-turning-tools-again-t73942.html?hilit=TCT tile

A cobalt drill bit probably won't get through HSS because I think it'll just be 8% Co (M42) which is only slightly harder than M2 HSS - but a TCT spear-point tile drill will get through (slowly) although it'll likely chip the TCT on the way through. This is to be expected with uncoated TCT when machining steels.

Another possibility would be to use a TiAlN coated solid carbide end-mill which is less likely to chip but you'll need to have a milling machine or sufficiently rigid set-up to do the drilling otherwise it too will chip.
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catal...Carbide-End-Mill-Standard-Length-TiAlN-Coated

The other possibility is to grind a slot in the back of the HSS cutter with a Dremel cut-off wheel in the same way as Siragas scraper tips on the Hamlet Big Brother.

HTH
Jon

 

[Rorschach]

I have turned HSS using carbide, never tried drilling it though.

 

[graduate_owner]

TiAlN does sound interesting. £8 for a 5mm milling cutter on Arceurotrade seems reasonable if I can use it to make several tools. I have a milling machine in my workshop so rigidity is not an issue. My plan now looks like being - cut a section of hss from a bar using an angle grinder after shaping and drilling, and screw to a section of mild steel which has a flat milled on it. Chronos sell 5 lengths of 4" long 1/2" square hss for £22. That would make a lot of scrapers. Half inch square is not ideal but I suppose rectangular section of 1" x 1/4" would be similarly priced.

Things look promising.

K

 

[Lons]

Lons, I will be very interested to hear how you get on.K

My appologies, the old brain cells must be dying quicker than I thought.

It's a solid carbide drill I bought not cobalt - this one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201320898755? ... EBIDX%3AIT

 

[woodpig]

I have turned HSS using carbide, never tried drilling it though.

I was surprised to hear this before. What sort of finish can you get?

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Aside from TCT cutting tools, most of the cases I can think of with a tool steel welded to a softer/cheaper steel are forge welded - laminated plane blades, axe bitt inserts and poll surfaces. Perhaps there is a good reason.

I understand it, HSS like M2 has more complex heat treatment requirements than carbon steels, in particular involving SLOW heating. I imagine welds to mild sreel have a high risk of cracking and would require preheating ?

As hardening HSS is not so easy at home, I assume we're talking about a pre heat treated piece of steel. Surely brazing it would lose the temper. And doing it the other way around, heat treating it would most likely melt the braze.

 

[chaoticbob]

I've drilled HSS with solid carbide bits - they're good things to have generally as you can spot with them as well because they're so stiff. Provided you have a sufficiently rigid machine of course. I think I got mine from Cromwell.
I've never tried silver soldering HSS, but if the join is 4" from the business end you shouldn't have a problem with taking the temper from the HSS - but stick the end into a potato if you're worried. Works for me with silver steel anyway!
Rob.

 

[Rorschach]

I have turned HSS using carbide, never tried drilling it though.

I was surprised to hear this before. What sort of finish can you get?

The finish I got was superb (I turned the shank of an end mill to make an extension shaft), smooth and shiney, the chips however were coming off red hot and it was actually a little scary lol.

 

[chipmunk]

Lons, I will be very interested to hear how you get on.K

My appologies, the old brain cells must be dying quicker than I thought.

It's a solid carbide drill I bought not cobalt - this one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201320898755? ... EBIDX%3AIT

That looks much more up to the task
FYI, most of the Sorby cutters use an M5 screw to hold them in place whereas the Siragas scrapers for the Hamlet BB use M6 screws.

Jon

 

[Lons]

Lons, I will be very interested to hear how you get on.K

My appologies, the old brain cells must be dying quicker than I thought.

It's a solid carbide drill I bought not cobalt - this one: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201320898755? ... EBIDX%3AIT

That looks much more up to the task
FYI, most of the Sorby cutters use an M5 screw to hold them in place whereas the Siragas scrapers for the Hamlet BB use M6 screws.

Jon

I'll get the chance to give it a go sometime this week, workshop time a bit limited at the minute.

I did manage to drill 4 holes before buying this but it cost me 6 drill bits including 2 which I think were cobalt bought from that guy at Harrogate show who drills just about everything with them. Tried a spearpoint and several decent TCT masonary bits but poor results. I use my Meddings drill press which is rock solid and tried different speeds, dry and lubricated drilling
I have a Euro cutter block but a number of surplus pairs of cutters which are exactly the same fitting but no holes, the 2 I have managed to drill work perfectly so worth the effort even if I have to buy more drill bits.

Bob