Water stones

[Cheshirechappie]

It's a long time since I used water stones, but when I did mine were King brand. I used to keep them dry, but submerge the unmounted ones for long enough for air bubbles to stop rising (about 10 mins) before using them. The mounted one (6000 grit) I just sloshed generously with water, and rubbed with a nagura until it slurried up nicely, then kept the slurry wet.

I've no idea if that's right or wrong, but it seemed to work. It's a lot easier storing dry stones if you're not using them daily, too.

 

[bussy]

It's a long time since I used water stones, but when I did mine were King brand. I used to keep them dry, but submerge the unmounted ones for long enough for air bubbles to stop rising (about 10 mins) before using them. The mounted one (6000 grit) I just sloshed generously with water, and rubbed with a nagura until it slurried up nicely, then kept the slurry wet.

I've no idea if that's right or wrong, but it seemed to work. It's a lot easier storing dry stones if you're not using them daily, too.

Hi
I put mine in water this morning and noticed the bubbles, which I wasn't expecting, and thought that when the bubbles stopped they must be saturated, thanks for posting.

Martyn

 

[iNewbie]

Hi iNewbie, Bugbear
All I saying was that some people keep their stones in water some don't, I take the point that instructions are specific to brand, Norton instructions say soak for 10 mins before use however Mouppe keeps his submerged with no ill effect.
Should have said earlier mine are Kings, the instructions that came with them are in Japanese. I have googled but can't find a difinitive answer.

Martyn

Its up to you what you do and you can take anyones advice you like. Me, I'll take the advice of the companies R&D dept - who know more than some other guy on the internets opinion on how to use their product. Carry on...

 

[woodpig]

I've got a king Ice Bear 1000/6000 and it says to soak it first then flush it during use.

 

[mouppe]

Hi iNewbie, Bugbear
All I saying was that some people keep their stones in water some don't, I take the point that instructions are specific to brand, Norton instructions say soak for 10 mins before use however Mouppe keeps his submerged with no ill effect.
Should have said earlier mine are Kings, the instructions that came with them are in Japanese. I have googled but can't find a difinitive answer.

Martyn

Its up to you what you do and you can take anyones advice you like. Me, I'll take the advice of the companies R&D dept - who know more than some other guy on the internets opinion on how to use their product. Carry on...

How about Lee Valley & Veritas' R&D department? Are they also to be ignored? Here an excerpt from their instructions.

"Japanese water stones are quite porous and are designed for use with water as a lubricant and flushing agent. In general, water stones should be filled with water (it takes about 5 minutes immersion) and then kept in a bucket of water or a plastic container so that they are ready for use at all times.

There are two exceptions to this practice. Natural water stones are not kept in water and the finer man-made water stones (6000x and 8000x) on wooden bases don’t have to be. They can be wetted a few minutes before use, and will function well."

Highland woodworking?

"If you use the stones every day, they may be stored in water so they're always ready for use at a moment's notice. Plastic food storage boxes with snap-on lids make good stone containers, as does our Veritas Stone Pond. The bases of the finishing stones may be immersed right along with the stones themselves."

I've done workshops at Lie Nielsen and at a couple of very-well known woodworkers. Every time I saw the stones sitting in water baths. I guess they're all doing it wrong too.

I understand it's a forum and you can express a different opinion, but to say someone who disagrees with you is wrong and then to misquote an instruction manual is misleading the OP. The manual merely says you need to immerse the stones. It does not say to ONLY immerse them for ten minutes. To me and apparently most other people this implies a minimum immersion time and since leaving them in a bath has no adverse effect on their performance, why not do it and have them ready at all times?

At the end of the day you should do what you like, and develop your methods based on your own experience.

 

[iNewbie]

Hi iNewbie, Bugbear
All I saying was that some people keep their stones in water some don't, I take the point that instructions are specific to brand, Norton instructions say soak for 10 mins before use however Mouppe keeps his submerged with no ill effect.
Should have said earlier mine are Kings, the instructions that came with them are in Japanese. I have googled but can't find a difinitive answer.

Martyn

Its up to you what you do and you can take anyones advice you like. Me, I'll take the advice of the companies R&D dept - who know more than some other guy on the internets opinion on how to use their product. Carry on...

How about Lee Valley & Veritas' R&D department? Are they also to be ignored? Here an excerpt from their instructions.

"Japanese water stones are quite porous and are designed for use with water as a lubricant and flushing agent. In general, water stones should be filled with water (it takes about 5 minutes immersion) and then kept in a bucket of water or a plastic container so that they are ready for use at all times.

There are two exceptions to this practice. Natural water stones are not kept in water and the finer man-made water stones (6000x and 8000x) on wooden bases don’t have to be. They can be wetted a few minutes before use, and will function well."

Highland woodworking?

"If you use the stones every day, they may be stored in water so they're always ready for use at a moment's notice. Plastic food storage boxes with snap-on lids make good stone containers, as does our Veritas Stone Pond. The bases of the finishing stones may be immersed right along with the stones themselves."

I've done workshops at Lie Nielsen and at a couple of very-well known woodworkers. Every time I saw the stones sitting in water baths. I guess they're all doing it wrong too.

I understand it's a forum and you can express a different opinion, but to say someone who disagrees with you is wrong and then to misquote an instruction manual is misleading the OP. The manual merely says you need to immerse the stones. It does not say to ONLY immerse them for ten minutes. To me and apparently most other people this implies a minimum immersion time and since leaving them in a bath has no adverse effect on their performance, why not do it and have them ready at all times?

At the end of the day you should do what you like, and develop your methods based on your own experience.

You are entitled to your opinion I'm entitled to mine.

Not sure why are you getting your panties in a wad. Manhood feeling challenged? Ego THAT big... Seriously.


I'm not misleading the OP. Someone mentioned Norton stones and I posted the INSTRUCTIONS by norton. You are misleading by that comment. The blurb says immerse for 10 mins prior to use. No-where does it say leave them in water. No-where. I said I wouldn't leave mine in water. You do what you like regarding that me-ole-china.


I'm not Lie Nielsen who can afford to leave their stones in a bucket and write 'em off as a consumable tax loss. Its no issue for me not leaving them in water.

And in general the higher grit stones don't need to be left in water (just a spritz before use) which is what you are implying. So thats wrong.


As I said earlier: Read the specific instructions - for whose stones you've bought. Seems to me the most logical thing to do when there are so many different brands for sale...

 

[Trafalgar]

I suppose for a waterstone to 'work' as a waterstone the binder has to be able to be broken down by water in order to release the grit that does the actual work. This seems to be the case at least with natural stones.

One can certainly see where leaving them continuously submerged might make them wear prematurely though their rapid wear is both their advantage and disadvantage -- makes honing quick but takes back time savings in keeping them flat and rut-free.

That said, I doubt if a current manufacturer will mind too much if they wear a little faster than they otherwise would. I can certainly imagine a scenario where one plops them down in water when opening shop in the morning and pulls them out when closing up. If I used them (perish the thought) that's probably what I would do as I rarely wake up in the middle of the night with an overwhelming need to hone a woodworking tool requiring a waterstone to be 'at the ready.'

 

[mouppe]

Hi iNewbie, Bugbear
All I saying was that some people keep their stones in water some don't, I take the point that instructions are specific to brand, Norton instructions say soak for 10 mins before use however Mouppe keeps his submerged with no ill effect.
Should have said earlier mine are Kings, the instructions that came with them are in Japanese. I have googled but can't find a difinitive answer.

Martyn

Its up to you what you do and you can take anyones advice you like. Me, I'll take the advice of the companies R&D dept - who know more than some other guy on the internets opinion on how to use their product. Carry on...

How about Lee Valley & Veritas' R&D department? Are they also to be ignored? Here an excerpt from their instructions.

"Japanese water stones are quite porous and are designed for use with water as a lubricant and flushing agent. In general, water stones should be filled with water (it takes about 5 minutes immersion) and then kept in a bucket of water or a plastic container so that they are ready for use at all times.

There are two exceptions to this practice. Natural water stones are not kept in water and the finer man-made water stones (6000x and 8000x) on wooden bases don’t have to be. They can be wetted a few minutes before use, and will function well."

Highland woodworking?

"If you use the stones every day, they may be stored in water so they're always ready for use at a moment's notice. Plastic food storage boxes with snap-on lids make good stone containers, as does our Veritas Stone Pond. The bases of the finishing stones may be immersed right along with the stones themselves."

I've done workshops at Lie Nielsen and at a couple of very-well known woodworkers. Every time I saw the stones sitting in water baths. I guess they're all doing it wrong too.

I understand it's a forum and you can express a different opinion, but to say someone who disagrees with you is wrong and then to misquote an instruction manual is misleading the OP. The manual merely says you need to immerse the stones. It does not say to ONLY immerse them for ten minutes. To me and apparently most other people this implies a minimum immersion time and since leaving them in a bath has no adverse effect on their performance, why not do it and have them ready at all times?

At the end of the day you should do what you like, and develop your methods based on your own experience.

You are entitled to your opinion I'm entitled to mine.

Not sure why are you getting your panties in a wad. Manhood feeling challenged? Ego THAT big... Seriously.


I'm not misleading the OP. Someone mentioned Norton stones and I posted the INSTRUCTIONS by norton. You are misleading by that comment. The blurb says immerse for 10 mins prior to use. No-where does it say leave them in water. No-where. I said I wouldn't leave mine in water. You do what you like regarding that me-ole-china.


I'm not Lie Nielsen who can afford to leave their stones in a bucket and write 'em off as a consumable tax loss. Its no issue for me not leaving them in water.

And in general the higher grit stones don't need to be left in water (just a spritz before use) which is what you are implying. So thats wrong.


As I said earlier: Read the specific instructions - for whose stones you've bought. Seems to me the most logical thing to do when there are so many different brands for sale...

Seems like your opinion is the only one that matters so I suppose we'd best leave it at that.

I thought the point of a forum was to offer advice based on your experience but I see now it's just a place to get insulted if you think differently.

Perhaps since you're so good at reading manuals you should read the one on etiquette?

 

[iNewbie]

No. It seems like yours is the only opinion as you questioned mine and later threw in the old lame: I've done a Lie Nielsen workshop - so I must be right. joker...

My etiquette manual is soaking right now...

 

[Trafalgar]

Is there any manufacturer that states continuous soaking is a requirement or that it's just OK to do so? There is a difference.

 

[mouppe]

No. It seems like yours is the only opinion as you questioned mine and later threw in the old lame: I've done a Lie Nielsen workshop - so I must be right. joker...

My etiquette manual is soaking right now...

Just pointing out how I saw it done there.

Anyway, have a nice day arguing with other people on the internet. I've got better things to do than go back and forth with a rude stranger.

 

[woodpig]

My King stone is double sided with a thick piece of plastic between the two halfs. I fully expect it would fall apart if I kept it in a bucket of water! :lol:

 

[Trafalgar]

King have this to say:

Preparation

Wet all King fine stones before use.

Caution

Please do not soak finishing stones (#3000 and above). Soaking a finishing stone will result in the stone cracking and breaking.
Returning a stone into a box while still wet or damp will result in molding and decreasing quality.
For double sided stone, please only soak the medium stone side (#1000). Failure to do so will result in the stone splitting and or breaking.

 

[Kalimna]

From the information present on most of the sellers' websites, it seems that a prolonged soak is not necessary, but neither is it damaging to the stone (presence of freezing conditions, in an unseated shed or garage, notwithstanding). However, there are specific instructions for some of the Naniwa stones that say not to do so, or the stones will be damaged. This is an excerpt from the Fine-tools website

"So Professional Stones / Chosera stones should NOT be left to soak in water for prolonged periods and must be stored dry. If this advice is not followed the stones can develop hairline cracks or the binding material can be leached out of the stone"

So, there are definitely some stones that shouldn't be left soaking. This is not a matter of opinion, but fact from the manufacturers. It may be the case that you would be fine leaving the Naniwa stones, but why take the risk?

Cheers,
Adam

 

[iNewbie]

No. It seems like yours is the only opinion as you questioned mine and later threw in the old lame: I've done a Lie Nielsen workshop - so I must be right. joker...

My etiquette manual is soaking right now...

Just pointing out how I saw it done there.

Anyway, have a nice day arguing with other people on the internet. I've got better things to do than go back and forth with a rude stranger.

And I was pointing out if you don't have a definite/objective answer read the instructions.

Yours truly, Rude boy.

 

[Peter Sefton]

I do not leave my stones immersed in water, I wet them before use and leave them to dry after. I also have different water troughs for each grit to reduce cross contamination otherwise your fine stone will cut more like a coarse stone if that grit is left on the surface. I do feel that the finer stones become softer if soaked over a period of time.

I also removed my water trough from my Tormek when not in use and change the water on a regular basis. The Tormek stone can become softer and become oval shape if soaked.

Cheers Peter

 

[Trafalgar]

It is hard to imagine reasonable scenarios where they would need to stay dunked over night. They need at least that period of time out of the water I would think.

 

[David C]

No, but there are several manufacturers who state clearly that continuous soaking will cause damage. Shapton is one.

I soak King 800, 1,000 & 1,200, permanantly.

Their polishing stones, 4,6 8 &10 thousand do not need soaking.

David

 

[adrspach]

It is hard to imagine reasonable scenarios where they would need to stay dunked over night. They need at least that period of time out of the water I would think.

I know people who work with their waterstones every day for major part of their day and they do. But also they lap them every day.

 

[adrspach]

Hi iNewbie
Just looked on the dieter schmid site and they say Japanese stones should never be left submerged but as Phil.p stated he's had his in water for 30yrs with no ill effect. I guess there's really no right or wrong !!! however as Vann said a container full of water is going to get spilled at some point, on reflection I think I will soak for a while then keep in a plastic bag (the stones that is) to keep them moist as John15 suggested.
Thanks for the input

Martyn

I was pointing out the mistake in adrspachs' post and that the Norton stones aren't to be submerged and left in water. There's definitely a right and wrong and as Bugbear wrote: Read the specific instructions.

I have no clue what your stones are but a search on Google would inform you of what to do.

Sorry you lost me. Where did I write that " Norton stones aren't to be submerged"?
If I did I do appologise to everybody who got confused by my information.