Water resistant MDF or Ply for kitchen cabinets...?

[Stanleythecat]

Hi Folks

New to the forum but would really appreciate some advice please. I'm about to undertake a new kitchen extension, bottom to top!

I will be making the kitchen cabinets from scratch and I was wondering what sheet material you would recommend? I have made a few bits and would say that I am confident that I can do a good job... I have to!

Having used pine on other projects it is too soft and seems to warp like crazy. So I'm plumping for sheet material carcasses and tulip poplar face frames/doors/draw fronts/kick board. I have a biscuit jointer and a pocket hole jig. I'm leaning towards biscuits at the moment but I'm wondering what to use. Water resistant MDF or Ply (and what ply should I be looking at?) Each has their own merits but I'm wondering what those in the know would use? The MDF was advised to me by a kitchen maker, it is stable and relatively cheap, however I'm worried about its long term durability and how it holds a joint.

All/any advise greatly welcomed.

Many thanks

Leo

 

[Tierney]

I recently made cabinets with ply carcass and poplar face frame and was very happy with the result. I believe this is how Neptune make their kitchens which are a cut above the high street names (Magnet, Homebase etc.)

The high street names use chipboard carcasses; which aren't great if they get wet, similar to MDF.

I use a far eastern ply, which is approx. £35 per sheet compared to approx. £18 for normal MDF. So for me it's a no brainer. Ply also holds screws well in the edge unlike MDF. The 18mm I use has about seven equal thickness plys, I've found this a lot better than others with thicker central plys and thin pale face plys. I buy this from my local basic timber merchant, so shouldn't be difficult to get hold of.

DT

 

[Stanleythecat]

Thanks DT.

I have only used poor quality ply before and didn't know what I was looking for. It basically fell apart as I worked it. Srandard stuff from B&Q etc. Is there a name for your type of ply and do you mind me asking what fixing method you use?

Thanks again

Leo

 

[carlb40]

Thanks DT.

I have only used poor quality ply before and didn't know what I was looking for. It basically fell apart as I worked it. Srandard stuff from B&Q etc. Is there a name for your type of ply and do you mind me asking what fixing method you use?

Thanks again

Leo

Have a look for birch ply, if i was making units it is what i would use.

 

[chippy1970]

Mfc (egger) would be my choice unless you want birch ply. Mfc is very hard wearing and even the most expensive kitchens have mfc carcasses. One job I'm on has bulthaup kitchens which cost around £200,000 each and the carcases are still mfc.

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[RogerBoyle]

+1 for what Chippy1970 wrote

 

[Stanleythecat]

Another new option! What's Mfc!

 

[chippy1970]

Melamine faced chipboard

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[nanscombe]

Mfc, what I know by the trade name Contiboard, I presume?

 

[Stanleythecat]

I think I'd rather try ply or mdf to be honest as it will be a painted finish. Doesn't conti board require more bespoke fixtures and other specialist tools to work with it?

 

[chippy1970]

I think I'd rather try ply or mdf to be honest as it will be a painted finish. Doesn't conti board require more bespoke fixtures and other specialist tools to work with it?

You didn't mention in your post that you wanted a painted interior. In that case don't use mfc as it's not the right material.

Yes conti board is mfc but it's very cheap poor quality stuff that's why if you look I put EGGER in brackets . Egger is more expensive but way better conti board is diy rubbish.

Personally I wouldn't have a painted interior as no matter what you do it with it will scratch in no time.




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[Otto]

I personally wouldn't consider a painted interior. The finish just won't hold up. Plus, it's such a lot of work to do on all those cabinets - whether you spray or do them with a brush/ roller. Mfc is tricky to work without a panel saw equipped with a scoring blade, the edges chip easily. A better alternative might be melamine faced mdf. A lot depends on how you intend to attach the face frames. You are obviously concerned about water damage, but that will only happen on exposed edges if they get wet. Just make sure all the plumbing is done properly, sink and worktop joins well sealed etc and you should be ok.

 

[Stanleythecat]

Thanks Chippy. I'll look in to it then. Can it be screwed or biscuit joined?


Leo

 

[Stanleythecat]

Thanks Otto. I was told that the water resistant MDF was a better product. Denser and harder so those were the main reasons I was considering it. How do you cut melamine coated mdf?

Leo

 

[jimmy rivers]

We prefer (MFMDF) Melamine faced MDF, as we personally find MFC to have less edge support by the substrate and can therefore be prone to chipping/crumbling if not machined (sharp or in place i.e. CNC) or handled carefully. Melamine will quickly dull cutting edges and a Chip Substrate will very much add to this, leading to a poor edge finish unless tooling is kept tip-top or frequently replaced. Some cheaper MFC products can have a slightly lumpy finish from the telegraphing of the chipboard texture through to the surface from the pressing process.

Perhaps for consideration is a balance of (re)sharpening, set up and budget with MFC being cheaper than MFMDF. MFC may also have a greater selection of off-the-shelf surface patterns and effects to choose from.

+ 1 For Egger OR Kronospan MFC

We dimension MFC & MFMDF on a panel saw using a Triple Chip blade in conjunction with a scoring blade. Where possible and for large projects we out source to CNC. Our cabinets are assembled with Biscuits Joints and Dominos for face framing.


Have you considered a wood veneered MDF board to finish with a clear coat?

With regards to moisture resistance, as long as the edges are treated/ lipped / faced as you mention you'll be fine and unless there's a flood or a poor seal on the worktops I doubt you'll have any problems.

+1 on Ply or Birch PLY if budget allows (you get what you pay for in this dept.)

– 1 on painting cabinet interiors

Cheers Jim

 

[Tierney]

Hi, I looked in the workshop and couldn't find a sticker on any of the sheets. In terms of construction, I used 5mm deep rabbets/dado's and 1.5" screws. Biscuits without rabbets will be fine.

DT

 

[Stanleythecat]

Thanks Jim (And DT)

SWMBO has a mind set on a painted beaded face frame kitchen (no doubt with some much deliberated Farrow & Ball paint!). On the plus side I have delegated the painting to her. We have chosen the BYO option as we can tailor the units and space exactly to our needs and maximise the space we have available. So it has come down to the usual caveats; durability, cost and can how I can fix it all together. I have a biscuit joiner and a pocket hole jig. I'm favouring the biscuits (although I'm not 100% sure how to clamp larger units; where there is a double door for instance) but the materials seem to be to have so many pro's and con's.

I won't be able to afford solid wood or birch ply.
Being honest I'm not sure what other grades of ply are suitable?
MR MDF is looking like it could work... though it could balloon on joints.
Having looked through past posts Laminated MFC or laminated MDF has a high probability of getting damaged or chipped throughout the build. Is the better quality stuff the same?

I'm definitely going to opt for having it cut to size before hand as I won't be able to hadle such large sheets with my domestic set up!

Thanks guys it has been a real help to have your advice and also very enlightening.

Leo

 

[nathandavies]

From what I can gather from your posts, my suggestion would be mfc. because....
price, it's going to be the cheapest way to make your cabinets
durability, it will keep better than painted cabinets (personally unless it's a display cabinet I would not want to do a painted cabinet for everyday use, too likely to mark and damage)
durability mk2, unless a sledgehammer is part of your build tool box then damaging mfc shouldn't be an issue
as long as you aren't using monster screws and you do pilot, it shouldn't blow
it's lighter than mdf, which will help with fitting , especially the wall cabinets

nathan

 

[Stanleythecat]

Thanks Nathan.

As you can tell I'm learning more about these materials with every reply! and yes, no sledge hammer!

So the branded names of MFC are more robust. My non commercial experience has only seen the crap that comes from B&Q etc, the same for ply and the general poor quality of their warped wood too.

On a plus side there won't be any wall units as it is a single story gable end extension with low eaves. There will however be a pantry cupboard and built in cookers so there could be some larger material (and weight) in those components.

Leo

 

[nathandavies]

In recent years I've only dealt with larger suppliers, lathams etc, who only deal with egger, medite and other quality suppliers.
it's been a while since I've been to b&q, but I remember how difficult it seems to get decent materials when you don't feel like you can go to the bigger suppliers.
the difference between good and bad mdf is huge. some bad stuff will be a nightmare to get a good finish on, good mr mdf I can get the edges as good as the factory faces.

nathan