Washita and Smooth Planing

[D_W]

The frictionites have rhodolite in them if I recall. I sold half a dozen of them for george wilson and kept (bought from george) a large unused pair that frictionite calls #821 and #825 - those are just bench stone sizes of each side of a frictionite #00.

They are one of the most satisfying feeling synthetic stones that I've ever used, it's a shame that the binder in them isn't used elsewhere. The slurry stone, IIRC, is just a rub stone to clean the surface. I don't think they were ever intended for anything other than razors, and the key with razors is to not quite remove an edge (so they may see a tiny bit coarse compared to some modern synthetic super finishers).

I eventually sold the 821/825 combination to someone in australia because I didn't have the heart to bash $300-400 worth of fairly rare vintage stones around in my shop to sharpen chisels and plane irons. The rest of the #00s went to local axe-man competitors in australia through a conduit there. They are driving the high prices on any stone that works well dry to touch up a race axe.

The norton axe-man razor hone is even worse (some get close to $1000). Some shavers end up buying those stones because they figure the expensive price means something good, but it's the axe people making them ridiculously expensive.

George told me that when he purchased those stones, they were $6 each in the 1970s. I sold them for him for about $210 each.

 

[MIGNAL]

Yes the frictionite is a good stone, maybe not worth the silly prices though. I just wish it was a touch longer.
The other stone I have is a Smiths, sold as an Arkansas. I bought it new in the early 80's, before Japanese water stones took off. Came with the usual red cedar case. I used it for a few years, back then it was the only fine stone that I had. It doesn't do much, meaning it's very slow at removing metal. In fact you might struggle to use it as a one stone solution. I haven't used it in 30 years. I think I tried it a few years ago just to confirm my memories of what is was like, it was extremely slow compared to my 8,000G waterstone. The frictionite is fast, the scotch hone slower but still pretty good.

 

[D_W]

Yes the frictionite is a good stone, maybe not worth the silly prices though. I just wish it was a touch longer.
The other stone I have is a Smiths, sold as an Arkansas. I bought it new in the early 80's, before Japanese water stones took off. Came with the usual red cedar case. I used it for a few years, back then it was the only fine stone that I had. It doesn't do much, meaning it's very slow at removing metal. In fact you might struggle to use it as a one stone solution. I haven't used it in 30 years. I think I tried it a few years ago just to confirm my memories of what is was like, it was extremely slow compared to my 8,000G waterstone. The frictionite is fast, the scotch hone slower but still pretty good.

Smiths stones were generally in-between stones. You have to scuff the surface of your stone or run something soft over it to wake it back up. A lot of people used to vintage stones will often say that they're not impressed by the smiths stones because they're not particularly fast, and they're particularly slow for how fine they are(n't). But there is a truth with all novaculite stones that they will cut quickly (if not very finely) when the surface has been scuffed significatly. Some of them can be woken up by rubbing wrought iron, mild steel or soft iron across them because it will pull particles loose, but that's not as reliable as abrading them.

The 825 stone (if you ever see one not in perfect shape on ebay) is an 8x2.5 inch version of your stone. The 821 is the coarse side (though, as you know if you have a #00, the sides aren't really that different - coarse would only be considered so in sharpening a razor). The #00 would be a great stone for the price it would be new if they were still manufactured (which would probably be about $40).

 

[MIGNAL]

I'll give it a go. It could be that it's clogged somewhat. I think I used it with oil but at sometime I remember trying to use water, in the hope that it would cut faster. I don't know what grit it is, somewhere in the 2 to 3 K region perhaps? That's just my impression but it really is a long, long time since I used it in any sort of capacity.

 

[D_W]

I'll give it a go. It could be that it's clogged somewhat. I think I used it with oil but at sometime I remember trying to use water, in the hope that it would cut faster. I don't know what grit it is, somewhere in the 2 to 3 K region perhaps? That's just my impression but it really is a long, long time since I used it in any sort of capacity.

It will cut faster for a very short period of time on water and then grade to cutting nothing. Light mineral oil, baby oil, etc, just about anything similar should help clean it off. If they don't evacuate particles, they get slow really quickly.

Not a valuable stone, so if you don't feel inclined, no big loss to let them go. I have one that I play with from time to time same as I would a washita - as a single stone - but mine is almost unused and hasn't died out yet. If it does, I'll scuff it with a 220 grit diamond plate. Strange stone, about as fast as a settled in washita, but not as fine (which is why they sold for a lot less in old catalogs, I guess - soft arks went for half the cost of a washita).

 

[MIGNAL]

Well DW I've refreshed the surface of the Smiths Arkansas on some 80G. You are quite correct on the bit about water, it skates and very little metal is removed, hardly any black inky deposit. Works much better with mineral oil, reasonably quick. I have a feeling that the stone wears fairly slowly or maybe that's because I'm used to soft waterstones and slate. It doesn't shave hairs very well straight off the stone but just a few strokes on a strop and it's shaving them with ease. Perhaps not the ultimate edge but a bit better than my (finally) worn in 1200 Ezelap. Certainly useable. In fact I might press it into service for a few weeks and put the Ezelap on the shelf. It's good to rotate these things, after nearly 30 years it must have been feeling left out. I'll give it a run out for a few weeks and see how it cuts after some use and without refreshing the surface.
I can't remember how much it cost me. I have a feeling it wasn't that cheap. I know it was bought from axminster. We were probably having to pay a bit for fine stones but I don't think it was as costly as the fine Japanese waterstones when they started to hit the market. It also came with a lovely smelling pencil cedar box, which I cut up for a little project some years ago. :roll:

 

[D_W]

I think you'll find it quite a bit better at finishing edges than the diamond stone, and you'll also find as you have already that the edge off of the arkansas responds wonderfully to a strop. I didn't understand what the big deal was about a bare leather strop until I started using an arkansas stone.

I would assume those smith hards probably sold as the equivalent of a 25 or 30 pound price stone. As far as wear rate, you couldn't honestly wear one out in a lifetime. though I badmouthed them above a little bit compared to a washita, they are a perfectly capable stone and that's only in relative terms to a very good washita. If you manage the surface of your stone to keep it cutting how you prefer, I think you'll find it a very rewarding stone to use, and unlike some more one-dimensional stones, the more you use it, the better you'll find it to work to your taste. I'd say giving it a month or three weeks is a good plan.

 

[memzey]

I use a vintage Pike Lilly white with the soft and fast cutting label as Dave describes. It's a great stone and if I were to go for a single stone setup it would probably be the one. Fast and fine. As it stands I use it before a surgical black ark and finish with a light strop on some mdf with a drop of autosol smeared on it. Sharpening a dull chisel or plane iron takes a minute tops without the need to slurry or otherwise prep watersones or fiddle with complex jigs. Means I'm far less likely to push a dull tool when I really shouldn't.

 

[MIGNAL]

I've been testing this Arkansas against the Ezelap (left) and the little OO frictionite. I've been using the backs of some already very flat chisels (the AI's) and carefully looking at how much of a polish the stones leave. The 1200 Ezelap is 5 months old, used regularly as a single stone solution. No real surprises. The Ezelap leaves the dullest finish, the frictionite the highest polished. The Arkansas is a little nearer the Ezelap than the frictionite. I'm guessing anywhere between 1500 and 2,000. I've read that the soft can be 800, this is certainly not 800, no way.
I do have some fine finishing papers at 1500, 2,000 & 2500, so I could narrow it down a little more. Not that it really matters, it still leaves a very sharp edge.

 

[D_W]

Here is mine. I figure that if I show it with a sorby jointer, you can be sure I'm not just pulling pictures up on the internet - I have been accused of talking about stones that I don't own because I talk about so many. (of course, I've never talked about a stone that I haven't used without stating that).

This one was unused when I got it, and it is settled in a little bit now. I weighed it, and the specific gravity is 2.4, which is about 0.2 below where black and translucents would be and just above what really coarse soft arks would be (so it's sort of an in the middle stone).

I would guess that your stone will occupy a space between those two other stones quite well. The quality of the edge is significantly different than a diamond honed edge (which doesn't respond that much to a bare leather strop since it doesn't have an organized wire edge the same way an arkansas stone leaves one).



When I mentioned low cost, I believe this stone was either $10 or $15 on ebay. I don't often see arkansas stones in the wild here, just a lot of india and carborundum stones, so I rely on ebay. To be fair, I don't go out looking for stuff that much on foot or by car, either, it just doesn't pay - most antique stores are picked over and the good stuff ends up on ebay unless your luck is really good.

 

[MIGNAL]

Never thought to measure the SG. but mine is just a touch over 2.3. It's not perfectly uniform in size though so I had to average some of the measurements.