Wadkin BGS 12 advice

[pgbaker]

Hey!

I've recently acquired a Wadkin BGS 12 sliding table saw in what seems to be pretty good nick. There's no visible rust, and it came with several blades, many original attachments, fences and accessories. I bought it from a retiring cabinet maker who's owned it since new (early 1970's).

I'm still in the process of arranging 3 phase so I can run this thing, but in the meantime there are a couple of things bothering me, and I'm looking for some information or advice.

One is the location of the cant adjustment wheel. This is a right tilt saw, and I'd expect the wheel to be on the left of the machine. Also, that's where pictures of this model all show it. However on this unit, it's on the right hand side where the motor is sort of in the way of my knuckles. The seller says it's always been that way, but I have my doubts! It looks like the worm gear is about the same distance from each end, so it shouldn't be a big deal to turn it right way around, right?

The other is that the rise/fall adjustment feels very stiff - it takes two hands on the wheel and a fair amount of force to make any adjustment in either direction (by comparison, the cant wheel is a breeze). And yes, I have loosened the lock knob in the centre of the wheel! I've also cleared out as much sawdust as I can, oiled the worm gear and the "brake shoe" slider at the back, but these things seem to make very little difference.

I'm thinking of removing the table itself to get a better look inside, but am unsure how those locking screws are supposed to work and don't want to lose too much adjustment by bumbling the thing apart.

I'm thankful for any suggestions anyone might have!

Gordon.

 

[wallace]

with regard to the rise and fall I would suggest taking it to bits and cleaning all the ways and mechanism, if it is full of crud when you are using excess force might cause damage. Its always worked for me

 

[SammyQ]

Hello, Gordon; hello, hello, ...cant wheel? Someone has reassembled the shaft on which this runs, wrong way round? It is possible. I've taken an AGS apart and the collars and wheel mounting on its cant shaft COULD be swopped over; imagine its big brother (your BGS) might have suffered this fate. If so, I'd follow Mark's (a.k.a. Wallace) advice and strip/clean the beast. Never know what other nonsense you'll find. Dalton's website is a 'go-to' for diagrams and there are lovely people on this site, Mr Fish for one has (I think) a BGS. He was very good to me 'couple years back.

Ejit, whoever the original bodger was.

Sam

PS Edit....Also, I think I've had EXACTLY your problem with rise and fall, and I can email you some pikkies of a sneaky way to use neodymium magnets to smooth out the run. The problem is a gib strip falling out of place.

 

[pgbaker]

the collars and wheel mounting on its cant shaft COULD be swopped over; imagine its big brother (your BGS) might have suffered this fate. If so, I'd follow Mark's (a.k.a. Wallace) advice and strip/clean the beast. Never know what other nonsense you'll find. Dalton's website is a 'go-to' for diagrams

Thanks, I've now removed the table, motor assembly, spindle assembly and rear guide, leaving essentially just the motor slide bracket and trunion. Still the rise and fall is stiff, which leaves just the worm gear and the large pivot pin as potential sources of stiffness, there is nothing else attached and no further contact points between the slide bracket and the trunion. At this point I'd like to remove the slide bracket and pivot but can't see how to remove the pivot from the trunion - does it just slide out once I've removed the two grub screws? If so, it's very tight. I'm hestitant to use a mallet...

...a sneaky way to use neodymium magnets to smooth out the run. The problem is a gib strip falling out of place.

Magnets!? If is the piece I think you're referring to (the "motor bracket trapping piece" on the parts diagram - i.e. the brake shoe looking thing at the rear of the slider), removing it entirely hasn't made any difference.

In other news, now I know what a "groverlock spring dowel" is.

Gordon.

 

[GK1]

I'll assume you've got this:

http://www.wadkin.com/uploads/files/Wad ... 20List.pdf

Have you removed the motor bracket trapping piece (#130) and the gib strip (#131)?

Mis-adjustment of these parts would be my first call if the rise and fall is stiff.

But if they're off, as you say, that leaves only the pivot and the shaft that the handwheel turns.

The slide bracket on a BGP/S is held by a big circlip, but it looks different on the BGS. But take out the handwheel shaft and worm wheel first, you can do this by removing a single grub screw (#120) and then using the handwheel you can wind the shaft and housing complete with attached worm wheel out of the front of the machine. You don't need to unpin the worm wheel. Once the shaft and the housing are out you can check that the shaft rotates freely, and now that the slide bracket (still hanging off the trunnion) isn't mated with the worm you should just be able to lift it up and down with your hand.

Once you've dealt with the handwheel assembly you can wind it back in, but you must make sure that the hole in the housing aligns with the threaded hole in the casting so the grub/pipscrew mates correctly.

 

[GK1]

By the way you'll realise that once the handwheel shaft has been wound out you can undo the two retainers for the trunnion hangers, and lift the trunnion right out - a good opportunity to clean everything up.

 

[pgbaker]

But take out the handwheel shaft and worm wheel first, you can do this by removing a single grub screw (#120) and then using the handwheel you can wind the shaft and housing complete with attached worm wheel out of the front of the machine.

Ahh! That was a great tip, thanks! I didn't expect to be able to remove it that way.

Now that the handwheel shaft and worm assembly are out, the only thing holding the slide bracket to the trunnion is the pivot (light comes through everywhere else), and I am unable to budge the thing in any direction. I can't believe I was able to crank it up or down with the handwheel at all, it really seems stuck at this point.

I've removed the two grub screws (134), should I be able to gently tap out the pivot pin now? I don't see that happening, maybe I'll need to take it somewhere where they can press it out. I wonder if a little rust hasn't gotten in there (if so, it'll be the only rust I've seen on this machine).

 

[pgbaker]

Some good news however, I've now got the cant handwheel mounted right way round! i.e. left way round...

 

[GK1]

Well it looks as though the pivot pin has a washer and bolt to retain it but I guess you've taken those off, but it certainly looks from the picture as though it should slide out now. Oh, maybe the nut and washer are on the saw shaft - it's hard to tell from the exploded diagram. Anyway get some penetrating oil in the grub screw holes.

 

[SammyQ]

Your saw's innards are very similar to mine. If I have read the above correctly, then it is part 186 on GK1's link that is stuck? Diesel, wd40, Plusgas down the two grub screw holes (don't lose them! They're Whitworth!) then - rubber mallet/block of hardwood - tap the pivot at each end to get some movement. Following that, take your courage in both hands and tap on the pivot itself, in the line of its axis. It is one tough barsteward, but it will move - EVENTUALLY! This is how I did mine and it really is a heart in hands move.

Sam

 

[SammyQ]

Just remembered; I played sneaky with this pivot once I had the grub screws out. I made up a tiny amount of diesel and WD40 on an old measuring spoon, tipped it into the two set screw holes, then RE-INSERTED the screws, using their insertion to hydraulically force the lube mix into the frozen joint between pivot and housing. Seem to remember doing that several times before wiping off the surplus and using my heat gun to warm up the joint to just above hand bearable. Once it was primed, I tried again to make the casting swivel by light taps with a rubber hammer on each end of the toothed quadrant, and then a piece of circular steel bar tapped GENTLY with my biggest persuader (4lb hammer) on-axis onto the face of the pivot opposite to the attached casting. Can't be bothered on a lazy Sunday to look up the numbers on diagram again, but if you want precision, nag me!

I distinctly remember, this was a bear to get off. The swivelling casting and the main yoke in which it is inserted BOTH have to be supported and as they are cast, the chances of a manly blow rendering something into many shards was always prominent in my mind. Little and often with the FBH ( ****ing Big Hammer) is the way to avoid catastrophe and frenzied chest-beating afterwards.

Once you get it slightly moved in an axial direction, put more jungle juice into the well and continue hitting with circumspection. The liquid will splash unless you firmly rest the bar on the face of the pivot, DNAHIKT.....Once the casting has given birth to its retained shaft, give same a light rub round with purple or grey Webrax or similar. You are in no way trying to remove metal, but rather the accumulated, polymerised(?) oil that Bert or Willie put there in the Bursgreen factory all those years ago. Once you get it clean, I recommend GT85 or summat similar. Even non-detergent engine oil or 3-in-1 will do. Clean the inside of the bore similarly and finger-wipe it with lube. Putting it back, I suggest you warm the main casting again slightly, then push it in firmly, re-insert screws, with a smidgeon of oil underneath them again. Worked for me.

Sam

 

[pgbaker]

Well, there is an ending to this story...

I had absolutely no luck in getting the motor slide bracket to move, tried lots of penetrating oil and a biggish mallet, etc. In the end I took it to a machinist, who was unable to get them apart using heat and a large hydraulic press, and finally had to mill out the old pin and manufacture a new one.

So now finally I have a working rise/fall mechanism, and look forward to reassembling my table saw this weekend.

 

[memzey]

Hello, Gordon; hello, hello, ...cant wheel? Someone has reassembled the shaft on which this runs, wrong way round? It is possible. I've taken an AGS apart and the collars and wheel mounting on its cant shaft COULD be swopped over; imagine its big brother (your BGS) might have suffered this fate. If so, I'd follow Mark's (a.k.a. Wallace) advice and strip/clean the beast. Never know what other nonsense you'll find. Dalton's website is a 'go-to' for diagrams and there are lovely people on this site, Mr Fish for one has (I think) a BGS. He was very good to me 'couple years back.

Ejit, whoever the original bodger was.

Sam

PS Edit....Also, I think I've had EXACTLY your problem with rise and fall, and I can email you some pikkies of a sneaky way to use neodymium magnets to smooth out the run. The problem is a gib strip falling out of place.

Hi Sammy,

Sorry to drag up such an old thread but I have a similar problem of a stiff rise and fall and really wanted to understand what this little technique was regarding the gib strip? Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[SammyQ]

This on tablet, 400 miles from home, so no photaes until Monday; sorry.

Standing at rear of machine, elevation handwheel knocking on your wedding department, remove table. Look down onto front of main internal casting where it rests on semicircular trunnion whatyamacalit. On right, is retaining lip as part of casting. It is perforated and tapped for three short bolts. These bolts bear onto a gib strip that presses onto the main casting as it swivels downward. Wee es haich one tee (try saying it out loud) falls out regularly........to retain gib on bolt heads, add 8mm neodymium magnets beside protruding bolt heads...VOILA! gib strip stays in place! "Sorted!"

Sam

Edit: never, never post when mildly blootered......the inane and profane parts of your brain sneak up on you.

 

[artie]

What's the opinions on fitting a 2 horse 240v motor to one of these saws?

 

[SammyQ]

No problem. I did it, just swooped pulleys to match new motor shaft and changed centres between pulleys.
Simples.
Sam

 

[artie]

No problem. I did it, just swooped pulleys to match new motor shaft and changed centres between pulleys.
Simples.
Sam

Is it powerful enough?

 

[SammyQ]

Yes, mine is nearly 3hp though. 2000W.

Sam

 

[artie]

Yes, mine is nearly 3hp though. 2000W.

Sam

Yeah. The question was about fitting a 2hp, which I think might be under powered.
Looks like you were of the same opinion.

 

[SammyQ]

Sorry Artie, I think the original 3ph was only 1.5 or 2 horse; I got a bargain from Axi so went up a bit in power to compensate for 1ph.
Sam