Wadkin AG10 Again!!

[Nev Hallam]

I have had my Wadkin Ags at Timber Team's workshop for a while now, Dave has been trying to fit a single phase motor to it, however he first found the motor he had for the job was from a ag12 and thus was not suitable for the job, he then tried another and had the same problem. He had a guy who specialises in motors over to have a butchers, and they said the problem is the fittings on the side of a single phase motor (I cant remember what they are called or do) are stopping the motor being fitted as it wont fit in the body, I know a few people have done the job so i know it can be done, but I think Dave has had enough of trying now, he's reluctant to use any motor from ebay as he says they all chinese motors and would never use a motor made in china. So yet again i'm left with my 3 phase wadkin, do i find someone who can fit me motor or do i just swallow and get a phase converter? Either way i really dont mind paying as I got given the saw.

Thought i'd put it out again.
Thanks people

 

[9fingers]

What is the spec of the motor you need?

Frame size
Hp/kW
no of poles
Foot mount?
Shaft diameter?

I should be able to point you in the direction of a non-chinese motor. You will have to check if the capacitors will get in the way still.

Bob

 

[Nev Hallam]

have just found this I thought i knew about converters inverters, ie static, digital rotary, but this guy claims that this is far better than a rotary, static or digital. Let me know what you think.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 3D1&_rdc=1

 

[Dibs-h]

What is the spec of the motor you need?

Frame size
Hp/kW
no of poles
Foot mount?
Shaft diameter?

I should be able to point you in the direction of a non-chinese motor. You will have to check if the capacitors will get in the way still.

Bob

Is it possible on some of this older machine to fit them with a motor brake? Either leaving the m\c as 3ph or when doing the 1ph conversion.

 

[9fingers]

have just found this I thought i knew about converters inverters, ie static, digital rotary, but this guy claims that this is far better than a rotary, static or digital. Let me know what you think.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 3D1&_rdc=1

Nev, I am not familiar with Silverdrive.

Not that it is directly relevant but their website is very poor
Only phone numbers given and a hotmail email address. All too easy to fly by night!

The seller says it needs a 40 amp supply and shows it with a 13amp plug on it. !!


My gut instinct is to avoid it and if you want to go the converter route get a Transwave.

Bob

Bob

 

[9fingers]

What is the spec of the motor you need?

Frame size
Hp/kW
no of poles
Foot mount?
Shaft diameter?

I should be able to point you in the direction of a non-chinese motor. You will have to check if the capacitors will get in the way still.

Bob

Is it possible on some of this older machine to fit them with a motor brake? Either leaving the m\c as 3ph or when doing the 1ph conversion.

Why do you need a brake? I had assumed you are not employing anyone?

If you need a brake for elfinsafety compliance with legislation then best to check what sort of brakes are permitted with who ever is regulating you.

Inverters will implement braking as will DC injection brakes. Both these use electricity to apply braking. The 'rules' might not allow this as under power cut/fuse blowing conditions you will have no braking.

If you are wanting braking in an amateur set up then an inverter will give you programmable controlled acceleration and deceleration of the motor speed.
I use a deceleration time of 1-2 seconds which seems effective without putting stress on the machine.

Bob

 

[Nev Hallam]

Only issue with transwave is for that price I can only buy a static converter which I'm trying to avoid, I spoke with Dave again, he seems certain theres no single phase motor in the world that will fit my saw. He has my saw at the min so cant get details whislt he has it, and he did say he can source lots of suitable motors just same problem with the capasitors again they do not fit in the body. He had some motor expert in there as well tell him the same thing.
in all honesty I getting pissed off with it now I just want a table saw that works, I have a great wadkin in immaculate condition but as its 3 phase its a nightmare!

 

[wizer]

Silverdrive aren't fly-by-night. They've been about for years. Inverters are their business. They used to make the old Poolewood lathes years ago and after a falling out they had a brief stint at making their own. One of them is in my workshop. It's a serious lathe and has a 3phase direct drive motor which purrs like a kitten. My research on the company told me that they can be hard to communicate with but generally are good guys.

Just some background info on Silverdrive. I bow to Bob's in depth and expansive knowledge on this subject.

 

[fobco]

hi,over the years i have had 2 ags 10 single phase machines,they were both brook ,they had the terminal block and capasitator,but i think they sat a 3 oe,clock on the body,i have seen quite a few converted machines,they needed no cutting or changing,not like the american delta unisaw,the old ags12 like the old startrites had a flange mounting,you twisted the motor to tension the belts

 

[katellwood]

I replaced the three phase unit on my 10 ags with a 3hp I purchased from Axminster, however I had to bore out the three belt pulley that was attached to the original three phase unit to 28mm if I recall correctly

In relation to mounting the motor the mounting plate was redrilled to suit the new unit and bolted back into place, take care to ensure the motor pulley is correctly aligned with the pulley on the shaft.

Tensioning is achieved by the four elongated mounting holes which are used for fixing the the mounting plate to the machine.

The machine stops well within the requisite 10 seconds, I repatriated a switch from an old extraction unit.

When mounting the motor on the mounting plate make sure you mount it towards the rear of the plate, this avoids the capacitor cover coming into contact with the saws frame, when the blade is lowered if not it might not be possible to fully retract a full sized blade below the table bed

Hope this helps

 

[DaveL]

I find it hard to believe that your man cannot find a single phase motor to fit, I know I did my conversion at the end of 2004, but I just looked up motor suppliers in my area and phoned round, the second or third call was successful.
Here is a picture of the original 2hp 3ph motor next to the new 3hp 1ph replacement.

I had the pulley bored and it all went back together a treat, just like katellwood has said.
The machine is a pleasure to use, I am very glad I bought it and swapped the motor.

 

[katellwood]

Some images to assist

the elongated holes for tensioning

motor mounted towards the rear of the plate

if the motor touches the frame it may not fully retract below the bed

the repatriated switch

 

[9fingers]

Only issue with transwave is for that price I can only buy a static converter which I'm trying to avoid, I spoke with Dave again, he seems certain theres no single phase motor in the world that will fit my saw. He has my saw at the min so cant get details whislt he has it, and he did say he can source lots of suitable motors just same problem with the capasitors again they do not fit in the body. He had some motor expert in there as well tell him the same thing.
in all honesty I getting ****** off with it now I just want a table saw that works, I have a great wadkin in immaculate condition but as its 3 phase its a nightmare!

Nev, a Static converter will be fine for applications where you are only running one motor at a time and they are roughly similar power. The converter should be rated a bit (25 50%) higher than the most powerful motor.

Later on if you want to upgrade to a rotary unit I'll tell you how to do it cheaply.

Bob

 

[9fingers]

Silverdrive aren't fly-by-night. They've been about for years. Inverters are their business. They used to make the old Poolewood lathes years ago and after a falling out they had a brief stint at making their own. One of them is in my workshop. It's a serious lathe and has a 3phase direct drive motor which purrs like a kitten. My research on the company told me that they can be hard to communicate with but generally are good guys.

Just some background info on Silverdrive. I bow to Bob's in depth and expansive knowledge on this subject.

Tom, I only made my comments based on the appearance of their website.
http://www.3phaseconverter.co.uk/

I think you will agree it does not portray a good impression! I accept it is WIP however. I'd always be concerned about doing any business with acompany that does not publish their postal address.

However I'm interested to learn that they are OK.

I'd be very interested in some technical details if you have any please Tom.

Bob

 

[Nev Hallam]

I knew alot of people had done the conversion to single phase it's just I dont know how to do it me self thats why I gave it Dave, he seems certain it cant be done, I don't know what to tell him as I have no idea what I'm talking about, I might get him to have a butchers at this forum maybe he'll see something. then there's the converter/inverter... seems I in same situation I was in 3 months ago, ha ha!

 

[Nev Hallam]

If Dave cant Change the motor on me saw after looking on here I'm going to just get a converter and be done with it, thanks for all ya advice people.
Nev

 

[Nev Hallam]

I going to spend alot of money buying a rotary converter, I'm getting it at the end of the month, Before I do I wondered If someone thought they could source and fit a single pahse motor in my wadkin for under £400 if so then feel free to message me. Like i said I have not the time or knowledge to do the job and its too much haslle for dave so before I get the converter I thought I'd offer the job out.

Nev

 

[wizer]

I'd be very interested in some technical details if you have any please Tom.

Sorry Bob, missed this. Technical detail of my lathe or Silverdrive inverters?

I haven't actually ever dealt with them, I was just stating that they have been around for a bit. Like I say, they have had mixed reviews from my research.

 

[9fingers]

I'd be very interested in some technical details if you have any please Tom.

Sorry Bob, missed this. Technical detail of my lathe or Silverdrive inverters?

I haven't actually ever dealt with them, I was just stating that they have been around for a bit. Like I say, they have had mixed reviews from my research.

I could do with some info on their inverters. I sent them an email a week ago inviting them to supply information for my write up on inverters but they could not be 4rsed to reply.

Cheers

Bob

 

[Nev Hallam]

I called them 4-5 times now both mobile and landline number at different times no answer, I also emailed them twice no answer. I speaking to the guy on ebay but I dont think he has anything to do with the company.
I wanted to know how their converter/inverter compares to say transwave rotary converter. I been offered a 4 hp silverdrive converter/inverter for £280 or a transwave 5hp rotary but for £500 as I'm only running the saw and nothing else I thought maybe the silverdrive might do.