Vibrating floor

[gilljc]

Hi guys
I wonder if anyone has ever solved the issues of scrolling in a wooden shed?
I recently moved from my 8x6 to my new 10x14 shed, which is lovely, but the floor is disappointingly cheap plywood.
I built a really sturdy workbench, but still getting quite a lot of vibration. It's not the saw, it's definitely the floor.
My question is how can I beef up the floor without it costing me an arm and a leg (I'm a bit short since I bought the shed )
Living in hope for a smoother future,
Gill

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Rubber mats under the bench legs? If it works, it's quick and cheap and nasty. One of those interim, emergency measures that I seem to live with for years.

 

[Doug B]

We have a similar thing with the lathe at our local wood turning club held in a church hall with an old wooden floor, our solution as we can’t do anything to the floor has been to add some weight to the lathes stand in the form of concrete blocks, it’s not perfect but the extra weight has reduced the vibration considerably.

 

[AES]

Getting rid of vibrations - even reducing them - can be quite a problem, especially as you suggest, the floor itself is at the root of the problem.

I haven't completely solved mine because I THINK my problem - not really a bother fortunately - comes from the fact that although my saw is firmly bolted to a movable table, that stands on a concrete floor on those old-fashioned "rubber ball-type" castors. I THINK that if I replace the castors with something like heavy duty neoprene/nylon castors it MAY help, but haven't got round to it yet!

Basically you're likely to get vibration feelings when 2 separate moving masses get out of synch - or sometimes into synch! - with each other. That means trying to change the mass of at least one of those items.

In your case I'd suggest piling some concrete paving blocks, bricks or sandbags on the base of the saw stand, assuming that your stand has a firm strong base. You may need to add or reduce blocks/bricks/sandbags on a trial and error basis to reach some sort of sweet point.

Very much a question of suck it and see, and may not work at all. The real answer is of course to significantly strengthen the floor though I can well understand you not wanting to go that way on cost and inconvenience grounds.

Good luck, just "suck it and see" is the best I can offer, sorry.

 

[gilljc]

Rubber mats under the bench legs? If it works, it's quick and cheap and nasty. One of those interim, emergency measures that I seem to live with for years.

Thanks for replying, that's one of my thoughts, I bought a rubber shock absorbing mat and put it under the saw, that made it worse, keep meaning to try some under the legs, will give it a go

 

[gilljc]

We have a similar thing with the lathe at our local wood turning club held in a church hall with an old wooden floor, our solution as we can’t do anything to the floor has been to add some weight to the lathes stand in the form of concrete blocks, it’s not perfect but the extra weight has reduced the vibration considerably.

Thanks, I have some spare blocks, will give it a try

 

[gilljc]

Getting rid of vibrations - even reducing them - can be quite a problem, especially as you suggest, the floor itself is at the root of the problem.

I haven't completely solved mine because I THINK my problem - not really a bother fortunately - comes from the fact that although my saw is firmly bolted to a movable table, that stands on a concrete floor on those old-fashioned "rubber ball-type" castors. I THINK that if I replace the castors with something like heavy duty neoprene/nylon castors it MAY help, but haven't got round to it yet!

Basically you're likely to get vibration feelings when 2 separate moving masses get out of synch - or sometimes into synch! - with each other. That means trying to change the mass of at least one of those items.

In your case I'd suggest piling some concrete paving blocks, bricks or sandbags on the base of the saw stand, assuming that your stand has a firm strong base. You may need to add or reduce blocks/bricks/sandbags on a trial and error basis to reach some sort of sweet point.

Very much a question of suck it and see, and may not work at all. The real answer is of course to significantly strengthen the floor though I can well understand you not wanting to go that way on cost and inconvenience grounds.

Good luck, just "suck it and see" is the best I can offer, sorry.

Thanks for the reply. I'll start with some concrete blocks, failing that, do you think another layer of better quality 18mm ply screwed down to the floor bearers, which are roughly 2ft apart will do the job?

 

[clogs]

def place thicker ply down.....min 18mm....def resin bonded....
I think if funds allow I'd use the ply thats on the floor of trailers....it's bomb proof.....but exp...." Buffalow Boards" ??
please mark up where the joists are so u can get some decent screw down.....
lastly I'd be using something like No Screws to glue it down.....
that way it's the best u can do.....
BUT
It'll be a ***** if and when u have to replace the floor.....

 

[samhay]

Thanks for replying, that's one of my thoughts, I bought a rubber shock absorbing mat and put it under the saw, that made it worse, keep meaning to try some under the legs, will give it a go

You decoupled the saw from the bench/floor with the rubber mat. You need to couple it to the bench - is it bolted down? - then ensure the bench and/or the bench and floor can damp the vibrations.
A rubber mat between the bench and floor will only help if the bench is heavy (or floppy, but not good) enough to adequately damp the vibrations. Otherwise, make everything as rigid/heavy as possible. more ply on the floor is one option, but you could also try bolting the bench to the walls.

 

[AES]

Thanks for the reply. I'll start with some concrete blocks, failing that, do you think another layer of better quality 18mm ply screwed down to the floor bearers, which are roughly 2ft apart will do the job?

If you can clear the whole shed, it's definitely worth trying to put a new sheet/s of ply down over the existing. As Frank Horton says (above), make sure to fix it well, and do use the best ply you can possibly afford- i.e. ply with as many laminations as possible, AND ply with all the laminations of equal "thin-ness".

Can you show use a pic or two of the stand/bench that your scroll saw is fixed to? It MAY be that some local strengthening around the feet of that stand/bench will help (along with some blocks on the stand/bench itself).

But as said, IME, solving vibrations problems really is a matter of suck it and see, and often the "obvious" answer of putting rubber under feet can have the reverse effect, as you've found.

Good luck (plenty of "sucking")!

 

[gilljc]

Work bench from a YouTube video by Dieter Schneider, saw bolted down, 'stiffeners' under the surface

 

[gilljc]

Definite improvement so far, thank you guys, you've made an old lady very happy

 

[samhay]

Excellent. That looks like a relatively painless fix. When you say 'stiffeners' under the surface, do you mean there are braces under the benchtop running from front to back?

 

[AES]

+1 for the above. As said before "vibration" is funny stuff. Glad the fix worked, but it you're ever in the same problem again (hope not for your sake!) don't think the same fix will do the trick again - next time it'll probably make it worse!

As for helping an "old Lady" (bet you're not THAT old!; anyway, what sort of stuff are you scrolling BTW?). I see that you've been a member here since 2017 so you'll know that the vast majority of members will bend over backwards to help each other. Certainly I've learnt a helluva lot since I've been here.

All the best.

 

[gilljc]

Excellent. That looks like a relatively painless fix. When you say 'stiffeners' under the surface, do you mean there are braces under the benchtop running from front to back?

Yes, braces

 

[gilljc]

+1 for the above. As said before "vibration" is funny stuff. Glad the fix worked, but it you're ever in the same problem again (hope not for your sake!) don't think the same fix will do the trick again - next time it'll probably make it worse!

As for helping an "old Lady" (bet you're not THAT old!; anyway, what sort of stuff are you scrolling BTW?). I see that you've been a member here since 2017 so you'll know that the vast majority of members will bend over backwards to help each other. Certainly I've learnt a helluva lot since I've been here.

All the best.

Funny you should say that... moved it all about to make it more permanent, and I swear it's not quite as good
Yes, I've dropped in and out over the years, I'm sure you've helped me out in the past, as have lots of others
Nice to see it's easier to post pics now.
I make lots of different small stuff as Cirrus Woodcrafts, I gave up my driving school last summer to scroll full time, scraping a very simple living, but I'm very happy

 

[AES]

gilljc, you said: Funny you should say that... moved it all about to make it more permanent, and I swear it's not quite as good.

Yeah, at risk of endless repetition, vibration really is weird. In some branches of industry there are highly qualified engineers working on it all the time and THEY still don't fully understand it (in my view). Anyway, fixed, that's the main thing.

BTW, I DO like that "thistle thingy", nice, and glad you're happy. That's the main thing.