Very sad news

[Terry - Somerset]

Ownership of land is an expression of power now embedded in law.

Today, certainly in the UK, we think we own our land or houses. This is only because there is a body of law which protects, and allows us to enforce, our legal rights.

We do not have absolute control as evidenced by planning regulations, listed building laws, and even compulsory purchase if the benefit to society as a whole exceeds our personal "ownership" rights.

Not many centuries ago (in the UK) land was wholly within the gift of those with power - monarchs, lords, robber barons etc. An individual right to occupy and use as they saw fit was entirely dependant on patronage.

Any reference to land "ownership" which predates ~16th century probably relates to land occupied through ultimately royal patronage. A feudal system allowed the lord of the manor to rent or demand a tithe as they saw fit.

Those more highly skilled were able to expect more of their "lord" and the "lords" would no doubt recognise the benefits to them of skilled wheelwrights, carpenters, stone masons etc etc.

In summary nothing much has changed in thousands of years - those with power control land use.

In the UK this was largely tribal before the Romans, a mess during the dark ages, followed by the Normans, and as parliamentary democracy took hold from the 14th C onwards, elected politicians.

 

[Jacob]

I think you are absolutely right. It was only by curbing the union's that we were able to attract companies like Nissan and Honda to set up here. .....

Nissan and Honda kept the UK unions happy with better wages , conditions and career prospects. They broke with the British tradition of over paid and underperforming management.

 

[selectortone]

British Leyland, NCB, British Rail etc etc.

With respect, it wasn't quite as black-and-white as that.

Back in the 80s and 90s I worked for companies supplying process control equipment to heavy industries in the UK, including back then several that were state owned - electricity generation (CEGB), water and sewage treatment (the Water Authorities), British Gas at al. The people I met - process engineers, instrument engineers, control room operators, maintenance staff - were, by and large, conscientious and proud to be involved in the common good of providing essential services. When these industries started to be sold off the light went out of their eyes as the common good became secondary to the bottom line. Savage cuts, redundancies, questionable safety practices.

I have a good friend who was a supervisor at British Telecomm. I saw the light go out of his eyes. Someone please convince me that what we have now from BT is better than the old days.

Now, I'm no communist. I uderstand the benefits of the stock market and the implications that has on my pensions. But those essential industries are now top heavy with bean counters and admin people whose prime goal is to make a profit for their shareholders. Fine, in a regulated stock market. But when you read about what went on before the 2008 crash - selling sub-prime mortgages to people who couldn't afford them, packageing up those mortgages into arcane instruments and selling them into the market, then betting on them to fail. Our essential services are now at the mercy of these people.

I thank heaven the government knows that selling off what's left of the NHS would be death at the ballot box or that would be gone too. And then where would we be?

 

[Jacob]

A classic example was the oil industry in Russia. Pre revolution they were producing something approaching three quarters of the entire world supply. Post revolution the commissars turned up and took everything into state ownership. Some of the business owners, Nobel for example, were allowed to leave, only because the workers rallied round and protected him. Most were put up against a wall and shot as enemies of the people. those who survived were offered no compensation and were lucky to get out with the clothes on their back. the party hierarchy helped themselves to the assets of the former owners, and new managers were appointed based primarily in their political reliability. All production bonuses and other worker incentives were abolished as being unpatriotic. The result? Within a few years production had slumped by over 90 % and the whole industry was in chaos. The Communiststs were forced to swallow their principles and engage the filthy capitalists in the form of Esso and Shell to sort the mess out, which they did.

They tell a different story here Black gold: How the Russian oil industry was born

 

[ovenpaa]

RIP Prince Philip.

I am disappointed to read so much anti royal sentiment. Prince Philip was a faithful companion to our queen for over 70 years and deserves to be remembered for who as much as what he was. Unfortunately, there are people in this life who seem to have the only goal in life to ruin or ridicule what people hold dear. The man was a force and I would prefer people to not comment if they have nothing worthwhile to say.

Has anyone noticed how it is always the minority that is most vocal?

 

[Amateur]

In summary nothing much has changed in thousands of years - those with power control land use.

not so much today with groups like Greenpeace, and also land contamination controls that are carried out by the environmental agencies.

 

[Jacob]

RIP Prince Philip.

I am disappointed to read so much anti royal sentiment. Prince Philip was a faithful companion to our queen for over 70 years and deserves to be remembered for who as much as what he was. Unfortunately, there are people in this life who seem to have the only goal in life to ruin or ridicule what people hold dear. The man was a force and I would prefer people to not comment if they have nothing worthwhile to say.
.....

I agree.
Why aren't they going on about Prince Andrew and his "little friends"?

 

[TRITON]

You can forget the musings of anti-royal disgruntled people and start with a rescue by the Royal Navy at 18 months, loss of all contact with immediate family at 8 years then look at his naval career that ought to take you at least a couple of months to do it justice.

The fact that you appear to be in the first category sited will probably mean that you have no interest in the reality though.

Am I now ?. shows how wrong you are buddy. And far from it im actually PRO royal.
Not just the income generated, which other republics can only dream of, i appreciate everything such a head of state has done to draw a country together in difficult times. In fact is was just such a system that put Britain on the world map, and such a small country too.

But thats ok, i accept your apologies, but would like to point out that having an opinion isnt testimony to being a negative one.
And I think the Royal family can look after themselves, they dont need wannabe heros to step in for them

 

[Fergie 307]

They tell a different story here Black gold: How the Russian oil industry was born

As Mr M might have said, "you cannot be serious". Russia Beyond is a state sponsored propaganda outlet, you think you are going to get the truth? Some people's naivety is truly astonishing.

 

[TRITON]

I don't consider it privileged living at all.
Sometimes I wonder if folk could actually get out of bed on a daily basis and do what they do.

Of course it is. Silly to suggest other.
As to getting out of bed day after day, i'd do it, as would you at such wages.
Some get out of bed day after day and do so for minimum wage.

It's not before anyone points out that I'm anti royal, but am in fact anti government.

 

[Jacob]

As Mr M might have said, "you cannot be serious". Russia Beyond is a state sponsored propaganda outlet, you think you are going to get the truth? Some people's naivety is truly astonishing.

Try this one The Turbulent History of Foreign Involvement in the Russian Oil and Gas Industry.

 

[scotrodg]

I remember, back in the day, when this forum was about woodworking and associated stuff.
Pretty sure the bbc are overloaded with sycophants covering this just now

 

[Amateur]

Of course it is. Silly to suggest other.
As to getting out of bed day after day, i'd do it, as would you at such wages.
Some get out of bed day after day and do so for minimum wage.

It's not before anyone points out that I'm anti royal, but am in fact anti government.

But I'm not driven by money and neither are the Royals.
What you miss is that you were brought up in a different environment, as they are. To take over from them and do their job would be ridiculous.
As for working the minimum wage, that is a matter of choice and has nothing to do with being born into royalty or any class.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

... I would prefer people to not comment if they have nothing worthwhile to say.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but it is of no more value than anyone else's.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

But I'm not driven by money and neither are the Royals.

Read Norman Fowler's "And What Do You Do".

 

[D_W]

They tell a different story here Black gold: How the Russian oil industry was born

you may have missed at the end that the industry foundered as soon as things became complicated and they had to privatize it to restore production.

 

[scotrodg]

"I'm not driven by money and neither are the Royals"...I have to take you at your word but suggesting the royals are not either is delusion to Olympic standards.
They frequently have their hands out for more, frequently receive valuable gifts (check out the provenance of the queens stables) and if there is ever a suggestion of reducing the hand outs they receive, the bleating is outrageously loud.

No disprespect meant to the queen but it's time this "institution" was very firmly parked up and told they have to pay their own way.

 

[Jacob]

I remember, back in the day, when this forum was about woodworking and associated stuff.
Pretty sure the bbc are overloaded with sycophants covering this just now

You don't seem to have posted anything about woodwork yourself?

 

[Amateur]

After all that its started snowing!
Enjoy the rest of your day......

 

[Amateur]

Read Norman Fowler's "And What Do You Do".

If it's a book could it just be an opinion?